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Author
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Topic: Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
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ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 481 of 1429 (896168)
08-02-2022 11:55 AM
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Reply to: Message 478 by Dredge
08-02-2022 3:52 AM
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Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Dredge writes: No one will ever be able to prove...
Stop saying "prove". It just makes you look stupid.
Dredge writes: ... so only an idiot (or a Darwinist) would claim that ToE is "knowledge".
And stop saying "Darwinist". It just makes you look stupid. ToE definitely IS knowledge. Biology makes no sense without evolution. And an idiot like you calling somebody else an idiot just demonstrates that you're an idiot.
"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 478 by Dredge, posted 08-02-2022 3:52 AM | | Dredge has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 483 by dwise1, posted 08-02-2022 12:15 PM | | ringo has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 482 of 1429 (896169)
08-02-2022 12:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 477 by Dredge
08-02-2022 1:29 AM
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Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes: This hypothesis is as bonkers as that fairy tale about whales evolution.
In what way is a moving nostril bonkers? We see humans with nostrils in different positions. What's so hard to understand about a survival advantage being passed on from generation to generation? Be specific.
"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 477 by Dredge, posted 08-02-2022 1:29 AM | | Dredge has not replied |
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dwise1
Member Posts: 5952 Joined: 05-02-2006 Member Rating: 5.2
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Message 483 of 1429 (896172)
08-02-2022 12:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 481 by ringo
08-02-2022 11:55 AM
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Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
And an idiot like you calling somebody else an idiot just demonstrates that you're an idiot. Case in point observed in the wild (quoting from memory):
Hillary Clinton: Trump is Putin's puppet.
Trump (petulantly): You're the puppet! You're the puppet!
Just like Sludge and every other inarticulate polemicist who cannot think of an actual response. That single neuron in his "egg-shell cranium" must be dying of loneliness. Edited by dwise1, : added (petulantly)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 481 by ringo, posted 08-02-2022 11:55 AM | | ringo has seen this message but not replied |
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dwise1
Member Posts: 5952 Joined: 05-02-2006 Member Rating: 5.2
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Message 484 of 1429 (896173)
08-02-2022 12:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 479 by AZPaul3
08-02-2022 7:28 AM
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Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Only a Stupid Fucking Catholic would not. Actually, Sludge is not representative of all Catholics, nor of "The Church" as a whole. There are many Catholic examples of serious scholarship and rigorous thinking (eg, in logic and theology), though that is usually more the purview of priests and monks albeit not restricted to them. For example, there are videos by a Dominican monk and physicist which get into issues of religion, science, and evolution. While we would not agree on everything, at least he demonstrates that his thinking is clear and that he asks the right questions. Entirely different from Sludge whose head is filled with raw sewage. There are about 23 or 24 sects within the Roman Catholic Church, not counting the general and national churches. Some are considered to be fringe and undoubtedly there are sub-sects and cults that go beyond the fringe. We don't know what perverted cult within what fringe sect Sludge belongs. But in the meantime, yes, he does give the entire Roman Catholic Church and its god(s) a very bad name. Edited by dwise1, : added the existence of serious scholarship
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 479 by AZPaul3, posted 08-02-2022 7:28 AM | | AZPaul3 has not replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4447 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 485 of 1429 (896175)
08-02-2022 1:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 207 by nwr
06-21-2022 6:28 PM
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Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
nwr writes: Gunter Bechly came up with a similar challenge. And several biologists answered it. But, of course, Bechly rejected all of their answers, because what he was really asking was a matter of his subjective opinion. And he was not about to accept any responses to his challenge. See the discussion here:
Bechly’s “Species Pairs” Challenge I kept meaning to thank you for this link. It's very interesting seeing others accessing Bechly's reasoning and his scientific contributions.
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonOne important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 207 by nwr, posted 06-21-2022 6:28 PM | | nwr has seen this message but not replied |
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vimesey
Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: 09-21-2011
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Message 486 of 1429 (896180)
08-02-2022 3:42 PM
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Reply to: Message 477 by Dredge
08-02-2022 1:29 AM
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Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Well I've spent a few mins on Google and have dug this up so far:
When I've got time I'll do a bit more research and see where his fortune comes from. Looks like my guess may be correct. (I'm a lawyer, and understand how the grotty world of mega wealth works. I'm also intelligent and understand how science works. Which is why I don't believe that the universe has to be simple enough for me to understand it. I trust intelligent scientists to get it right, rather than moronic religious fanatics who believe they have to be right, or else they won't get to their bronze age invented fictitious afterlife.)
Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 477 by Dredge, posted 08-02-2022 1:29 AM | | Dredge has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 490 by Dredge, posted 08-02-2022 6:49 PM | | vimesey has replied |
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Dredge
Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: 09-06-2016
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Message 487 of 1429 (896182)
08-02-2022 6:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 308 by Percy
07-19-2022 11:08 AM
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Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Percy writes: If by "HOW it happened" you mean the specific DNA sequences of all the involved breeding individuals as well as which individuals bred with which and the specific environmental influences, then we keep saying we don't know, that we can't possibly know evolutionary history at that level of detail.
You can't prove that you know how any evolutionary transition evident in the fossil record worked at any level.
Little evidence was left behind. What we do have is the DNA of their modern descendants and relatives, and quite a bit can be deduced from that.
DNA doesn't tell you what process was responsible for evolutionary history.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 308 by Percy, posted 07-19-2022 11:08 AM | | Percy has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 494 by Percy, posted 08-02-2022 8:20 PM | | Dredge has not replied |
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Dredge
Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: 09-06-2016
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Message 488 of 1429 (896183)
08-02-2022 6:35 PM
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Reply to: Message 320 by ringo
07-19-2022 1:23 PM
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Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
ringo writes: You're very arrogant to think that you can tell WHAT things can not ever be known.
Even the village idiot knows that no one will ever be able to prove that ToE describes the process that produced the fossil record.
I do NOT accept your idea that some things can not ever be known.
Who's being arrogant now?
And I do NOT accept the claim that YOU know what they are.
You must be confusing me with someone else ... I never made that claim.
When I say we "know" something, I refer to the best current knowledge that we have, not some voodoo absolute knowledge. What we know, science can always change.
"current knowledge" doesn't include a scientific theory. A theory is not knowledge - it's just an idea that descibes a possibility.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 320 by ringo, posted 07-19-2022 1:23 PM | | ringo has replied |
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Dredge
Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: 09-06-2016
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Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
No one can prove that humans evolved from some ape-like creature ... therefore no one can claim that said evolution is a "fact". Do you know the difference between a belief and a fact?
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Dredge
Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: 09-06-2016
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Message 490 of 1429 (896185)
08-02-2022 6:49 PM
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Reply to: Message 486 by vimesey
08-02-2022 3:42 PM
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Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
vimesey writes: I'm a lawyer
Is it true that you've never won a case?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 486 by vimesey, posted 08-02-2022 3:42 PM | | vimesey has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.2
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Message 491 of 1429 (896186)
08-02-2022 7:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 490 by Dredge
08-02-2022 6:49 PM
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Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Troll
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 490 by Dredge, posted 08-02-2022 6:49 PM | | Dredge has not replied |
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AZPaul3
Member Posts: 8562 From: Phoenix Joined: 11-06-2006 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 492 of 1429 (896187)
08-02-2022 7:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 489 by Dredge
08-02-2022 6:40 PM
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Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
No one can prove that humans evolved from some ape-like creature .. Prove, again. Ok. Yes, we can and yes, we have.
... therefore no one can claim that said evolution is a "fact". Then humanity has proclaimed the "fact" of evolution over your personal objections. Makes you sad, doesn't it?
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 489 by Dredge, posted 08-02-2022 6:40 PM | | Dredge has not replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4447 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.1
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Message 493 of 1429 (896189)
08-02-2022 7:31 PM
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Reply to: Message 489 by Dredge
08-02-2022 6:40 PM
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Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Sludge writes: No one can prove that humans evolved from some ape-like creature I don't know of anyone trying to prove that. What I do know is that there are mountains of evidence supporting the fact that all primates share a common ancestor and that humans are primates, both morphologically and genetically. All the evidence also supports the fact that humans are great apes and share common ancestors with all the living and extinct members of that clade.
Sludge writes: ... therefore no one can claim that said evolution is a "fact". Your conclusion is incorrect, but I don't see how you could enforce it anyway. We know that evolution does in fact occur and that the theory of Evolution explains the processes of descent with modification: reproduction, mutation, selection, repeat.
Sludgge writes: Do you know the difference between a belief and a fact? Yep, I do. Beliefs are bullshit and facts are supported by evidence.
Sludge writes: Ringo writes: When I say we "know" something, I refer to the best current knowledge that we have, not some voodoo absolute knowledge. What we know, science can always change.
"current knowledge" doesn't include a scientific theory. A theory is not knowledge - it's just an idea that descibes a possibility. This is still incorrect and will remain incorrect no matter how many time you repeat it, as has been pointed out to you numerous times. You don't have much of a game, do you?
Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonOne important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 489 by Dredge, posted 08-02-2022 6:40 PM | | Dredge has not replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22502 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 4.9
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Message 494 of 1429 (896191)
08-02-2022 8:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 487 by Dredge
08-02-2022 6:08 PM
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Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Dredge writes: You can't prove that you know how any evolutionary transition evident in the fossil record worked at any level. There's that word again. You must believe that if you repeat an erroneous statement enough times that it eventually becomes right. --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 487 by Dredge, posted 08-02-2022 6:08 PM | | Dredge has not replied |
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dwise1
Member Posts: 5952 Joined: 05-02-2006 Member Rating: 5.2
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Message 495 of 1429 (896192)
08-02-2022 8:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 488 by Dredge
08-02-2022 6:35 PM
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Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
{usual nonsensical twaddle about the ToE that have nothing whatsoever to do with evolution} What the f**k are you talking about? Here ¡yet again! are the questions that I asked you in Message 304:
DWise1 writes: Of course, it's biological evolution. That's what we have been talking about all this time and have been explaining to you over and over again.
So what are you talking about? What do you think evolution is? Please describe it as completely as you can. How to you think that evolution works or is supposed to work? Please include what you would consider to be the results or consequences of evolution and explain completely why those would be the results or consequences. What do you think is the evolutionary explanation of how speciation (the formation of a new species) works and happens? Do try to be as specific as you can be. And my assessment of that was:
DWise1 writes: Of course, you will never answer any of those questions. In the past four decades I have never seen any creationist even attempt it, but rather all they ever do is avoid those questions. Why won't any creationist ever answer those basic questions? In part because they have no clue what they are talking about, but rather just mindlessly repeat creationist claims and "arguments" (read "cheap rhetorical tricks") they have heard but do not understand. Although that is obviously true, there's also the simple fact that actual discussion, exchanging of ideas, and learning would be directly counter-productive to their mission:
For most creationists, their mission is to be nothing more than bottom-feeding trolls. Try answering those questions. Demonstrate that you are not so devastatingly stupid that you cannot keep up.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 488 by Dredge, posted 08-02-2022 6:35 PM | | Dredge has not replied |
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