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Author Topic:   Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 376 of 1429 (895852)
07-22-2022 6:55 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by Tangle
06-27-2022 11:43 AM


Re: Facts are not Forever
The vacuum chamber in that video reminds me of my cranium.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Tangle, posted 06-27-2022 11:43 AM Tangle has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 377 of 1429 (895853)
07-22-2022 7:27 AM
Reply to: Message 373 by Dredge
07-22-2022 6:06 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
...although it's irrelevant to my argument.
Argument? What argument? All you do is knee-jerk deny all evidence and troll the emotion. You have no argument, SFC.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 373 by Dredge, posted 07-22-2022 6:06 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 514 by Dredge, posted 08-03-2022 8:50 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 378 of 1429 (895854)
07-22-2022 7:41 AM
Reply to: Message 367 by Dredge
07-21-2022 8:05 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Well, thank you for that bizarre interlude.
You are still welcome to engage in constructive discussion at any time.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by Dredge, posted 07-21-2022 8:05 PM Dredge has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 379 of 1429 (895855)
07-22-2022 7:41 AM
Reply to: Message 375 by Dredge
07-22-2022 6:48 AM


Dredge Is YEC
... please be advised that I'm not a YEC.
Oh bullshit. You are a YEC.
You believe in a young earth. You believe in fiat creation. You believe in a dinky little rowboat housing all life while the world drowns. You believe in the talking snake.
You're a liar in everything else you put on these pages. We will not believe this lie.
You're a YEC. Prove otherwise, Altar Boy.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by Dredge, posted 07-22-2022 6:48 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 380 by Dredge, posted 07-22-2022 8:11 AM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 515 by Dredge, posted 08-03-2022 9:04 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 380 of 1429 (895856)
07-22-2022 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 379 by AZPaul3
07-22-2022 7:41 AM


Re: Dredge Is YEC
I love your sense of humour.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by AZPaul3, posted 07-22-2022 7:41 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 381 by AZPaul3, posted 07-22-2022 8:26 AM Dredge has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 381 of 1429 (895857)
07-22-2022 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 380 by Dredge
07-22-2022 8:11 AM


Re: Dredge Is YEC
I love your sense of humour.
Can't say the same for your stupidity.
And it's no laughing matter. You are YEC. You just lie about it like you do everything else.
With your history of lying you can't prove otherwise.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 380 by Dredge, posted 07-22-2022 8:11 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 382 by Dredge, posted 07-22-2022 8:44 AM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 385 by dwise1, posted 07-22-2022 12:09 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 382 of 1429 (895858)
07-22-2022 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 381 by AZPaul3
07-22-2022 8:26 AM


Re: Dredge Is YEC
AZPaul3 writes:
And it's no laughing matter.
Oh but it is a laughing matter ... because your clown act is so good!
You are YEC.
Believe that if you like, but I have no idea how you came to that bizaree conclusion. All I know is it's so bizarre, it's funny!
You just lie about it like you do everything else.
Is "Bozo" your clown name? Or did you come up with something more original?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 381 by AZPaul3, posted 07-22-2022 8:26 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 383 by AZPaul3, posted 07-22-2022 8:51 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 384 by Percy, posted 07-22-2022 10:38 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 386 by AZPaul3, posted 07-22-2022 1:20 PM Dredge has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 383 of 1429 (895859)
07-22-2022 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 382 by Dredge
07-22-2022 8:44 AM


Re: Dredge Is YEC
Smoke and mirrors. Deflect and obfuscate.
Your protestations to the contrary mean nothing. You are YEC and you cannot prove otherwise.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by Dredge, posted 07-22-2022 8:44 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 384 of 1429 (895860)
07-22-2022 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 382 by Dredge
07-22-2022 8:44 AM


Re: Dredge Is YEC
What impression of you specifically and Catholics in general are you hoping to leave here?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by Dredge, posted 07-22-2022 8:44 AM Dredge has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 385 of 1429 (895861)
07-22-2022 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 381 by AZPaul3
07-22-2022 8:26 AM


Re: Dredge Is YEC
And it's no laughing matter. You are YEC. You just lie about it like you do everything else.

With your history of lying you can't prove otherwise.
Kind of a technicality, but there is a difference between young-earth creationists (YEC) and old-earth creationists (OEC). Creationists even see that as a major schism and have devoted some debates and rhetoric on it.
Basically, the only difference between a YEC and an OEC is the single issue of how old the earth is. The rest is mostly the same stupid nonsense. Check out NCSE's article, The Creation/Evolution Continuum (2016 -- based on an earlier article by Eugenie Scott which formed the material of a chapter of her book, Evolution vs. Creationism: An Introduction, second edition, 2009).
So YE/OE notwithstanding, Dredge is still a willfully stupid lying evil creationist. His attempts to deflect and divert over the YE bit is just further evidence of his malfeasance.
 
BTW, it is not quite true that YECs are incapable of learning. When a particular claim proves to be too blatantly false (eg, their moon dust claim, bullfrog protein and other false claims regarding protein comparisons), then they will drop it, albeit as quietly as possible (eg, they announced dropping moon dust in the preface of a creationist book). Then they won't use it again, except maybe trotting it out again every few years hoping that everybody had forgotten about it.
But more generally, it becomes increasingly difficult to get a self-avowed YEC to discuss any YEC claims. They avoid making those claims on their own, ignore attempts to get them to present a YEC claim to a non-creationist, or to discuss/support/defend any particular YEC claims we try to raise with them. YE claims are the weakest part of YEC and they have learned through experience to avoid them at all costs. Though I suspect that when they're safely back in a YEC circle-jerk that they use those claims freely.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 381 by AZPaul3, posted 07-22-2022 8:26 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 391 by Dredge, posted 07-22-2022 2:24 PM dwise1 has replied
 Message 524 by Dredge, posted 08-03-2022 11:30 AM dwise1 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 386 of 1429 (895863)
07-22-2022 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 382 by Dredge
07-22-2022 8:44 AM


Dredge Is Still YEC
That proves they don't know how life evolved over deep time. Their simplistic nineteenth-century theory fails miserably.
Message 91
Humans have spent the past 10,000 years or more, turning wolves into poodles and thousands of other species into tens of thousands of varieties of domestic plants and animals.
... and the irony is, none of those achievements required Darwinian theory. LOL
Message 91
but until someone actually produces a eurkaryote from a prokaryote, they can't claim to know how that evolution happened.
Message 96
If someone knows a lot about micro-evolution but doesn't know a thing about how any macro-evolutionary transition in the fossil record proceeded, that person can't claim to know how evolution works.
Message 97
... and yet science is as incapable of describing how macro-transitions in the fossil record proceeded as it was in 1859.
Message 99
Just from the opening messages from you in this thread I find 5 absolute lies. I couldn’t go any more. There are so many lies in your posts I can’t stomach to swamp through them all.
Suffice to say, everything you have presented has been lies.
... please be advised that I'm not a YEC.
Message 375
From the history presented, we must conclude this is also a lie.
There are literally millions of data points that evidence evolution on a macro scale. Your lie that we do not have or understand this data is your religious intransigence against actual knowledge. Knowledge that calls your god a fantasy.
Your presence here is your continued attempt to subvert reality to foster the Big Lie that your god exists. It doesn’t. And you cannot show otherwise.
We can show evolution as defined by the ToE. We can show micro to macro in the fossil record as well as in the lab. We know how whales evolved from pakicetus over 50 million years. We have the data. We have the fossils.
And those that study these things all agree the evidence is conclusive. Whales evolved from the 4-legged land animal pakicetus and we know each step along the way and we have lots of fossils of the intermediate forms like ambulocetus, remingtoncetus and basilsaurus.
And we can chart the same for millions of organism.
Your contention that we do not know these things is a ridiculous fabrication borne of your catholic-centered stupidity and a deep need for you to lie your god back into contention as effective in this universe.
The ToE is real. Your god is not.

Edited by AZPaul3, : word


Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by Dredge, posted 07-22-2022 8:44 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 388 by dwise1, posted 07-22-2022 2:16 PM AZPaul3 has not replied
 Message 393 by Dredge, posted 07-22-2022 2:31 PM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 528 by Dredge, posted 08-03-2022 11:56 AM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 536 by Dredge, posted 08-03-2022 2:53 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 387 of 1429 (895864)
07-22-2022 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by Dredge
07-09-2022 11:59 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dr. Gunter Bechly is one of my heroes! ..
...I love to read Bechly's stuff.
I was surprised didn't answer Message 297 considering how much you love Bechly's stuff. So you have no response to my observation that Bechly's scientific achievements do not include any mention of his ID beliefs?
Tanypteryx writes:
Dr. Gunter Bechly is one of my heroes!
He has authored or co-authored more than 160 scientific publications, including a co-edited and co-authored book published by Cambridge University Press and...blah, blah, blah...
Wow, I guess you've read all his papers and books. That all sounds like a publicity blurb.
One thing I am sure you have noticed in his scientific writing is absolutely no mention of his interest in Intelligent Design, none, nada.
I have never met Bechly, but I have worked on research projects with people who have also worked with him on projects. Many in the odonate study community were surprised when he joined the Discovery Institute, but everyone noted that he refused to discuss his views of ID with colleagues. To many, it was fairly obvious that he realized he would lose credibility if he did.
I haven't followed his recent work, but what I read of his papers seemed like good science and clearly supports evolutionary history of insects. I don't know how he got involved with the religious fanatics at the Discovery Institute, but his actual scientific research doesn't seem to support anything about ID.
On July 18, last Monday, coincidentally I got an email from ResearchGate with the subject: Günter Bechly, an author you cited, uploaded a full-text to: The damselfly palaeofauna from the Eocene of Wyoming and....
I had forgotten that a project and paper I worked on a few years ago cited Bechly.
Anyway, when you paste his scientific achievements into a post about ID, you are implying that ID is supported by his work in paleontology and entomology, but that is not the case at all.
No where in all those species descriptions and fossil descriptions and discussions of revising paleo-phylogenies will you find any conclusion that references Intelligent Design.
So, despite Bechly believing in ID, he, just like all other ID believers cannot provide any actual research observations or evidence that supports their beliefs.
Do you have any comments?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Dredge, posted 07-09-2022 11:59 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 389 by Dredge, posted 07-22-2022 2:16 PM Tanypteryx has not replied
 Message 537 by Dredge, posted 08-03-2022 3:03 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 388 of 1429 (895865)
07-22-2022 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 386 by AZPaul3
07-22-2022 1:20 PM


Re: Dredge Is Still YEC
Dredged-up Bottom Feeder writes:
... please be advised that I'm not a YEC.
From the history presented, we must conclude this is also a lie.

There are literally millions of data points that evidence evolution on a macro scale. Your lie that we do not have or understand this data is your religious intransigence against actual knowledge. Knowledge that calls your god a fantasy.

Your presence here is your continued attempt to subvert reality to foster the Big Lie that your god exists. It doesn’t. And you cannot show otherwise.

We can show evolution as defined by the ToE. We can show micro to macro in the fossil record as well as in the lab. We know how whales evolved from pakicetus over 50 million years. We have the data. We have the fossils.

And those that study these things all agree the evidence is conclusive. Whales evolved from the 4-legged land animal pakicetus and we know each step along the way and we have lots of fossils of the intermediate forms like ambulocetus, remingtoncetus and basilsaurus.

And we can chart the same for millions of organism.

Your contention that we do not know these things is a ridiculous fabrication borne of your catholic-centered stupidity and a deep need for you to lie your god back into contention as affective in this universe.

The ToE is real. Your god is not.
He maintains that he is not a YEC solely on the point that he claims to not believe in a young earth. He is most certainly identical to YECs except for that one very minor point. Though that doesn't mean that he isn't lying about that too, since many YECs pretend not to be since the young earth position is completely indefensible and leaves them very vulnerable.
He reminds me of that scene in I, Claudius where Augustus Caesar (in the first role I had seen Brian Blessed in) in the midst of his morality campaign finally learns of his daughter Julia's rampant promiscuity (to put it very mildly). He gathers her lovers to confront them:
Caesar (enraged): Who here has slept with my daughter?
(No one responds but rather they all hang their heads in shame and fear)
Caesar (confronting one individual in particular): What about you? Did you sleep with my daughter?
Individual: We didn't exactly sleep.
Caesar: "Didn't exactly sleep" (then bores a hole through the man with his enraged glare)
Dredge will insist that he's not a YEC solely because he allegedly doesn't follow the young-earth party line, but he's pure creationist in all other ways.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 386 by AZPaul3, posted 07-22-2022 1:20 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 390 by Dredge, posted 07-22-2022 2:20 PM dwise1 has not replied
 Message 538 by Dredge, posted 08-03-2022 3:07 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 389 of 1429 (895866)
07-22-2022 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 387 by Tanypteryx
07-22-2022 2:04 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Tanypteryx writes:
Do you have any comments?
No.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 387 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-22-2022 2:04 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 390 of 1429 (895867)
07-22-2022 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 388 by dwise1
07-22-2022 2:16 PM


Re: Dredge Is Still YEC
dwise1 writes:
Dredge will insist that he's not a YEC solely because he allegedly doesn't follow the young-earth party line, but he's pure creationist in all other ways.
Old-earth creationist ... that sounds like me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by dwise1, posted 07-22-2022 2:16 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
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