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Author | Topic: I Know That God Does Not Exist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Doing the same thing for 50 years with no result is more of a waste of time.
I would argue that 50 years of daily prayer and communion is more of a discipline than a fantasy. Phat writes:
You haven't demonstrated a strong mind here.
It's like working out to strengthen the body...except that it strengthens the mind. Phat writes:
Where did that come from? Rule # 2: Imagining yourself in charge is like telling me I think I'm infallible. I don't imagine myself in charge. I do say that you think you're infallible - and you have as much as admitted it.
Phat writes:
And?
Science always questions the default of the day. Science is not meant to judge or conclude anything. Phat writes:
Well, nobody can have perfect knowledge because it is impossible to do every possible experiment.
If I recall correctly, you said that nobody can have perfect knowledge without conducting every possible experiment. (an impossible task) Phat writes:
There's nothing to "admit". I never claimed to have "perfect knowledge" about anything.
When I said that you claim to have evidence that places belief in last place, you forgot to admit that you did not have perfect knowledge confirming your evidence. Phat writes:
You believe you're infallible in your ability to choose the "one true God". You even reject what your buddy Jesus actually said (as far as we can tell) in favor of what you have made up about Him. I have said before that I never consider myself infallible but that I believe that Jesus is infallible."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
EWolf writes:
We're also told that fairies exist. We're told a lot of nonsense.
What do we do about the fact that we were told that God exist? EWolf writes:
If we see perfect, uniform waves on the water, we don't assume that somebody "built" them. If we see perfect, uniform waves on a sand dune in the desert, we don't assume that somebody "built" them. We understand that they are natural behavior based on the nature of matter.
If we find a sand castle on a beach we know its builder exists. EWolf writes:
In our minds. Where did our worth, dignity, and our right originate?"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
I could tell YOU a story:
I could tell about the time God "poofed" me out of trouble by literally saving my life by warning me audibly of an unseen danger that I was a few seconds away from ... but I won't, because you'd dismiss it as a fantasy or a lie or a manifestation of mental illness. In 1973, I was working with another fellow up at the lake - fifty miles from nowhere - in the dead of a Saskatchewan winter. At quitting time, the car wouldn't start. It turned out that the spark was shooting through a hole in the distributer cap and shorting out against the engine. We had a key to the one building that had a fireplace and we were contemplating spending the night when a car came down the hill. A friend of my co-worker happened to be in the area and decided to drop by to say hello. We hitched a ride back to the city with him. I would call that ... a coincidence.
Dredge writes:
If your vision came true, I'd be impressed. I could also tell you about a full-on vision I had that showed me the future in precise detail ... But none of that has anything to do with what I said and you quoted. The point of the little-old-lady-in-the-flood story is that her faith was misplaced. Instead of "trusting in God", she should have accepted the REAL help that was available.
Dredge writes:
You must be a really evil miscreant if you're not allowed to say "story". Try "teddy bear". Apparently, the machine doesn't want me to use the word, "s-t-o-r-y" (*****)"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
My first question would be: Why do you need to be "called" to an act of generosity? It is usually a reminder of someone that I need to call or help in some way and it is always an act of generousity (and necessity) and never selfish."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Why would we "learn" something that isn't true and makes no sense? And what "kids" like you and ringo have never learned is that God is all about belief and is not required to be forever verified by evidence. EVERYTHING has to be verified by evidence. God's exemption is just a convenient lie.
Phat writes:
Another convenient lie.
For one thing, God does not talk with or help everybody (despite your logical conclusion that He ought to do so)... Phat writes:
Where did He make that clear?
... He makes it clear that belief is part of the deal rather than stoic skepticism and doubt. Phat writes:
And you have never explained why it is silly. It's just something you don't want to do. You might as well say it's silly to wash the dishes. The whole idea of "throwing Him away" was always silly and never fully explained as to why the idea was wise."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
If you have evidence, why wouldn't you show it? Why MUST I show you evidence? You said that you "markedly disagree" that "God has never evidentially shown up". If you have evidence that He has shown up, show us.
Phat writes:
I require evidence for EVERYTHING that is supposed to exist - Bigfeet, leprechauns, extraterrestrials, etc. That isn't "cavalier"; it's scientific.
Are you so cavalier towards God's existence that you require evidence? Phat writes:
It's been clear for years that YOUR argument is going nowhere.
If so, our arguments will never go anywhere. Phat writes:
Your refusal to do what Jesus instructed is just evidence that your "belief" is hollow. But I'd be unimpressed with your belief even if you did give everything up. Whether your personal belief is real or pretend, it's still only belief.
You are unimpressed with my belief until and unless I give everything up. Phat writes:
First, your claim is false. Catholic monks and nuns often take a vow of poverty. And Hutterites are a Protestant sect, similar in doctrine to Mennonites and other Baptists, who hold their property in common. I can't impress upon you how rare that occurs within global Christianity... But rarity is irrelevant. When the young ruler asked, "What must I do to be saved?", Jesus didn't say, "If everybody sells what they have and gives to the poor, you will be saved." Salvation is an individual thing. You don't get into heaven because of what other people do.
Phat writes:
It's a deal-breaker because you don't want to do it.
... or why it is a deal-breaker. Phat writes:
Stop it! I am NOT the one who wants you on the hook. JESUS wants you on the hook! ringo writes:
How convenient to state in order to get yourself off of a hook that you think I should be on! And God is also imaginary. And I don't believe the hook exists, so I couldn't possibly be on it. It's ONLY for believers. Get that through your head!
Phat writes:
I never said humanism would achieve world peace. Of course, it would be a more peaceful world if everybody was less religious and more human.
Explain (for example) how humanism will achieve world peace. Phat writes:
And conveniently, money exists.
Humanism won't work without money. Phat writes:
That happens pretty often. Why doesn't your God fix it?
And money is about to decrease markedly in value even as prices inflate. Phat writes:
You quoted me answering that question: Because there are different ways of achieving the same goals.
ringo writes:
If so then why division rather than consensus? there are different ways of achieving the same goals. Phat writes:
The reason for NATO was to prevent the spread of Communism. And NATO continues to exist to counter Russia - because Russians are Russians, whether they're Tsarists or Communists or gangsters. ringo writes:
Sorta like a global NATO without the military element. What do you even mean by "a unified world"? There would be no reason for NATO to be global, with nobody to counter.
Phat writes:
A bit like trying to reason with you.
How, for example, does anyone reason with Vladimir Putin? Phat writes:
Like how the Catholics and Protestants are in one accord? Like how they never spent thirty years slaughtering each other over control of Europe?
ringo writes:
Being in one accord. And what does "spiritual unity" mean? Phat writes:
But you're against globalism.
Letting God Bless not only America but the Planet. Phat writes:
See? There you go, insisting on your fair cut. You're not interested in God "blessing the Planet".
Unlikely to happen with the CCP and Putin, however. China wants its turn running things without having to give the US a fair cut. Phat writes:
Secular humanism does get things done, often in spite of the opposition by you Christians. For example, in the civilized world, medical care is provided by secular humanism. Health is a common cause, isn't it? Explain how secular humanism would get anything done without a common cause?"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Never mind trying to put "other words" in my mouth. Just respond to the words I say.
In other words.... Phat writes:
Then why don't you answer the question? If you really believe in Jesus, and you think He's of any earthly use, why don't you do what He told you to do? Really think about it and really answer.
Now I finally get it. Phat writes:
It's about time.
Thinking now about our decades-long discussions, I did some research. Phat writes:
Doing what Jesus told you to do might convince some people that you actually do believe what you pretend to believe. But it wouldn't convince anybody that what you believe is true. I also am beginning to realize that I will never convince anyone here at EvC that God (through Jesus Christ) exists apart from the character in the book even if I DID give everything up."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
Then I bet you'd be really impressed by a 1972 Ford Galaxie. But the voice was more impressive, because it saved my life.Edited by ringo, . "I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Dredge writes:
See Schrödinger's cat. If the doctors at that Catholic hospital knew the fetus was dead...."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
Be more specific. What exactly is "idiotic" about the obvious interpretation? How did you come up with this idiotic interpretation of Scripture?"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
In what dictionary? A socialist - by defintion - has sh_t for brains."Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt." -- motto of the Special Olympians
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
Since you have admitted to having an IQ of 11 (I think you flatter yourself), you're not in any position to judge anybody else's IQ.
The IQ of your average socialist can perhaps be judged... Dredge writes:
I doubt that you could have such complete data on every socialist who ever lived, so I can only conclude that you are lying. ... by the fact that Jim Jones (1931-78), of "Jonestown" fame, was far and away the most intelligent socialist who ever lived. And I asked for the dictionary from which you got the definition. Your reading comprehension is poor."Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt." -- motto of the Special Olympians
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
In Message 2869 when you said:
Please remind me of when I did not tell the truth.quoteYou could not possibly have that information. That's only one example of you lying."Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt." -- motto of the Special Olympians
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
That's clearly false, otherwise all of those halfwits wouldn't have voted for Trump. One of the few things a halfwit can do competently is recognize another halfwit."Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt." -- motto of the Special Olympians
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Dredge writes:
And some of them were evil. And some of them may have been both. It's hard to tell the difference sometimes.
Some who voted for Trump certainly were halfwits ... Dredge writes:
Case in point. The followers were half-wits but the leaders were definitely evil. ... the halfwits who stormed the Capitol Building, for example."Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt." -- motto of the Special Olympians
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