Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2798 of 3207 (894724)
05-27-2022 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 2783 by Phat
05-26-2022 2:38 PM


Re: How So?
Phat writes:
I would argue that 50 years of daily prayer and communion is more of a discipline than a fantasy.
Doing the same thing for 50 years with no result is more of a waste of time.
Phat writes:
It's like working out to strengthen the body...except that it strengthens the mind.
You haven't demonstrated a strong mind here.
Phat writes:
Rule # 2: Imagining yourself in charge is like telling me I think I'm infallible.
Where did that come from?
I don't imagine myself in charge. I do say that you think you're infallible - and you have as much as admitted it.
Phat writes:
Science always questions the default of the day. Science is not meant to judge or conclude anything.
And?
Phat writes:
If I recall correctly, you said that nobody can have perfect knowledge without conducting every possible experiment. (an impossible task)
Well, nobody can have perfect knowledge because it is impossible to do every possible experiment.
Phat writes:
When I said that you claim to have evidence that places belief in last place, you forgot to admit that you did not have perfect knowledge confirming your evidence.
There's nothing to "admit". I never claimed to have "perfect knowledge" about anything.
Phat writes:
I have said before that I never consider myself infallible but that I believe that Jesus is infallible.
You believe you're infallible in your ability to choose the "one true God". You even reject what your buddy Jesus actually said (as far as we can tell) in favor of what you have made up about Him.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2783 by Phat, posted 05-26-2022 2:38 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2799 of 3207 (894725)
05-27-2022 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 2785 by EWolf
05-26-2022 4:46 PM


EWolf writes:
What do we do about the fact that we were told that God exist?
We're also told that fairies exist. We're told a lot of nonsense.
EWolf writes:
If we find a sand castle on a beach we know its builder exists.
If we see perfect, uniform waves on the water, we don't assume that somebody "built" them. If we see perfect, uniform waves on a sand dune in the desert, we don't assume that somebody "built" them. We understand that they are natural behavior based on the nature of matter.
EWolf writes:
Where did our worth, dignity, and our right originate?
In our minds.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2785 by EWolf, posted 05-26-2022 4:46 PM EWolf has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2800 of 3207 (894726)
05-27-2022 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 2790 by Dredge
05-26-2022 9:45 PM


Re: Fixed it for you Phat.
Dredge writes:
I could tell about the time God "poofed" me out of trouble by literally saving my life by warning me audibly of an unseen danger that I was a few seconds away from ... but I won't, because you'd dismiss it as a fantasy or a lie or a manifestation of mental illness.
I could tell YOU a story:
In 1973, I was working with another fellow up at the lake - fifty miles from nowhere - in the dead of a Saskatchewan winter. At quitting time, the car wouldn't start. It turned out that the spark was shooting through a hole in the distributer cap and shorting out against the engine. We had a key to the one building that had a fireplace and we were contemplating spending the night when a car came down the hill. A friend of my co-worker happened to be in the area and decided to drop by to say hello. We hitched a ride back to the city with him.
I would call that ... a coincidence.
Dredge writes:
I could also tell you about a full-on vision I had that showed me the future in precise detail ...
If your vision came true, I'd be impressed.
But none of that has anything to do with what I said and you quoted. The point of the little-old-lady-in-the-flood story is that her faith was misplaced. Instead of "trusting in God", she should have accepted the REAL help that was available.
Dredge writes:
Apparently, the machine doesn't want me to use the word, "s-t-o-r-y" (*****)
You must be a really evil miscreant if you're not allowed to say "story". Try "teddy bear".

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2790 by Dredge, posted 05-26-2022 9:45 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2829 by Dredge, posted 05-31-2022 6:57 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2801 of 3207 (894727)
05-27-2022 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 2795 by Phat
05-27-2022 11:15 AM


Re: Fixed it for you Phat.
Phat writes:
It is usually a reminder of someone that I need to call or help in some way and it is always an act of generousity (and necessity) and never selfish.
My first question would be: Why do you need to be "called" to an act of generosity?

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2795 by Phat, posted 05-27-2022 11:15 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2802 of 3207 (894728)
05-27-2022 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 2796 by Phat
05-27-2022 11:19 AM


Re: Fixed it for you Phat.
Phat writes:
And what "kids" like you and ringo have never learned is that God is all about belief and is not required to be forever verified by evidence.
Why would we "learn" something that isn't true and makes no sense?
EVERYTHING has to be verified by evidence. God's exemption is just a convenient lie.
Phat writes:
For one thing, God does not talk with or help everybody (despite your logical conclusion that He ought to do so)...
Another convenient lie.
Phat writes:
... He makes it clear that belief is part of the deal rather than stoic skepticism and doubt.
Where did He make that clear?
Phat writes:
The whole idea of "throwing Him away" was always silly and never fully explained as to why the idea was wise.
And you have never explained why it is silly. It's just something you don't want to do. You might as well say it's silly to wash the dishes.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2796 by Phat, posted 05-27-2022 11:19 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2807 of 3207 (894755)
05-28-2022 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2805 by Phat
05-27-2022 2:04 PM


Re: Fixed it for you Phat.
Phat writes:
Why MUST I show you evidence?
If you have evidence, why wouldn't you show it?
You said that you "markedly disagree" that "God has never evidentially shown up". If you have evidence that He has shown up, show us.
Phat writes:
Are you so cavalier towards God's existence that you require evidence?
I require evidence for EVERYTHING that is supposed to exist - Bigfeet, leprechauns, extraterrestrials, etc. That isn't "cavalier"; it's scientific.
Phat writes:
If so, our arguments will never go anywhere.
It's been clear for years that YOUR argument is going nowhere.
Phat writes:
You are unimpressed with my belief until and unless I give everything up.
Your refusal to do what Jesus instructed is just evidence that your "belief" is hollow. But I'd be unimpressed with your belief even if you did give everything up. Whether your personal belief is real or pretend, it's still only belief.
Phat writes:
I can't impress upon you how rare that occurs within global Christianity...
First, your claim is false. Catholic monks and nuns often take a vow of poverty. And Hutterites are a Protestant sect, similar in doctrine to Mennonites and other Baptists, who hold their property in common.
But rarity is irrelevant. When the young ruler asked, "What must I do to be saved?", Jesus didn't say, "If everybody sells what they have and gives to the poor, you will be saved." Salvation is an individual thing. You don't get into heaven because of what other people do.
Phat writes:
... or why it is a deal-breaker.
It's a deal-breaker because you don't want to do it.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
And God is also imaginary.
How convenient to state in order to get yourself off of a hook that you think I should be on!
Stop it! I am NOT the one who wants you on the hook. JESUS wants you on the hook!
And I don't believe the hook exists, so I couldn't possibly be on it. It's ONLY for believers. Get that through your head!
Phat writes:
Explain (for example) how humanism will achieve world peace.
I never said humanism would achieve world peace. Of course, it would be a more peaceful world if everybody was less religious and more human.
Phat writes:
Humanism won't work without money.
And conveniently, money exists.
Phat writes:
And money is about to decrease markedly in value even as prices inflate.
That happens pretty often. Why doesn't your God fix it?
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
there are different ways of achieving the same goals.
​If so then why division rather than consensus?
You quoted me answering that question: Because there are different ways of achieving the same goals.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
What do you even mean by "a unified world"?
Sorta like a global NATO without the military element.
The reason for NATO was to prevent the spread of Communism. And NATO continues to exist to counter Russia - because Russians are Russians, whether they're Tsarists or Communists or gangsters.
There would be no reason for NATO to be global, with nobody to counter.
Phat writes:
How, for example, does anyone reason with Vladimir Putin?
A bit like trying to reason with you.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
And what does "spiritual unity" mean?
Being in one accord.
Like how the Catholics and Protestants are in one accord? Like how they never spent thirty years slaughtering each other over control of Europe?
Phat writes:
Letting God Bless not only America but the Planet.
But you're against globalism.
Phat writes:
Unlikely to happen with the CCP and Putin, however. China wants its turn running things without having to give the US a fair cut.
See? There you go, insisting on your fair cut. You're not interested in God "blessing the Planet".
Phat writes:
Explain how secular humanism would get anything done without a common cause?
Secular humanism does get things done, often in spite of the opposition by you Christians. For example, in the civilized world, medical care is provided by secular humanism. Health is a common cause, isn't it?

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2805 by Phat, posted 05-27-2022 2:04 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2817 of 3207 (894773)
05-28-2022 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 2808 by Phat
05-28-2022 1:50 PM


Re: Ringo and Jar. Two peas in a pod
Phat writes:
In other words....
Never mind trying to put "other words" in my mouth. Just respond to the words I say.
Phat writes:
Now I finally get it.
Then why don't you answer the question? If you really believe in Jesus, and you think He's of any earthly use, why don't you do what He told you to do? Really think about it and really answer.
Phat writes:
Thinking now about our decades-long discussions, I did some research.
It's about time.
Phat writes:
I also am beginning to realize that I will never convince anyone here at EvC that God (through Jesus Christ) exists apart from the character in the book even if I DID give everything up.
Doing what Jesus told you to do might convince some people that you actually do believe what you pretend to believe. But it wouldn't convince anybody that what you believe is true.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2808 by Phat, posted 05-28-2022 1:50 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2818 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-28-2022 9:55 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2835 of 3207 (894864)
05-31-2022 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 2829 by Dredge
05-31-2022 6:57 AM


Re: Fixed it for you Phat.
Dredge writes:
But the voice was more impressive, because it saved my life.
Then I bet you'd be really impressed by a 1972 Ford Galaxie.

Edited by ringo, .


"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2829 by Dredge, posted 05-31-2022 6:57 AM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 2839 of 3207 (894869)
05-31-2022 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 2838 by Dredge
05-31-2022 12:20 PM


Re: Ringo and Jar. Two peas in a pod
Dredge writes:
If the doctors at that Catholic hospital knew the fetus was dead....
See Schrödinger's cat.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2838 by Dredge, posted 05-31-2022 12:20 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2842 of 3207 (894873)
05-31-2022 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 2840 by Dredge
05-31-2022 12:35 PM


Re: Ringo and Jar. Two peas in a pod
Dredge writes:
How did you come up with this idiotic interpretation of Scripture?
Be more specific. What exactly is "idiotic" about the obvious interpretation?

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2840 by Dredge, posted 05-31-2022 12:35 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2867 of 3207 (895531)
07-05-2022 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 2858 by Dredge
07-04-2022 7:30 PM


Re: You The Man
Dredge writes:
A socialist - by defintion - has sh_t for brains.
In what dictionary?

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2858 by Dredge, posted 07-04-2022 7:30 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2869 by Dredge, posted 07-05-2022 10:23 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2878 of 3207 (895589)
07-07-2022 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 2869 by Dredge
07-05-2022 10:23 PM


Re: You The Man
Dredge writes:
The IQ of your average socialist can perhaps be judged...
Since you have admitted to having an IQ of 11 (I think you flatter yourself), you're not in any position to judge anybody else's IQ.
Dredge writes:
... by the fact that Jim Jones (1931-78), of "Jonestown" fame, was far and away the most intelligent socialist who ever lived.
I doubt that you could have such complete data on every socialist who ever lived, so I can only conclude that you are lying.
And I asked for the dictionary from which you got the definition. Your reading comprehension is poor.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2869 by Dredge, posted 07-05-2022 10:23 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2880 by Dredge, posted 07-08-2022 6:11 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2879 of 3207 (895590)
07-07-2022 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 2875 by Dredge
07-06-2022 8:50 PM


Re: You The Man
Dredge writes:
Please remind me of when I did not tell the truth.
In Message 2869 when you said:
quote
The IQ of your average socialist can perhaps be judged by the fact that Jim Jones (1931-78), of "Jonestown" fame, was far and away the most intelligent socialist who ever lived.
You could not possibly have that information.
That's only one example of you lying.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2875 by Dredge, posted 07-06-2022 8:50 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2881 of 3207 (895614)
07-08-2022 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 2880 by Dredge
07-08-2022 6:11 AM


Re: You The Man
Dredge writes:
One of the few things a halfwit can do competently is recognize another halfwit.
That's clearly false, otherwise all of those halfwits wouldn't have voted for Trump.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2880 by Dredge, posted 07-08-2022 6:11 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2882 by Percy, posted 07-08-2022 5:16 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 2883 by Dredge, posted 07-08-2022 9:53 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 2887 of 3207 (895628)
07-09-2022 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 2883 by Dredge
07-08-2022 9:53 PM


Re: You The Man
Dredge writes:
Some who voted for Trump certainly were halfwits ...
And some of them were evil. And some of them may have been both. It's hard to tell the difference sometimes.
Dredge writes:
... the halfwits who stormed the Capitol Building, for example.
Case in point. The followers were half-wits but the leaders were definitely evil.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2883 by Dredge, posted 07-08-2022 9:53 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024