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Author Topic:   Matthew 12:40 Using Common Idiomatic Language?
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 138 of 168 (846415)
01-05-2019 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by candle2
01-05-2019 3:53 PM


candle2,
I'm afraid your comments deal with issues for a different topic. This one is concerned with one issue and only one issue:
1. The Messiah said that three nights would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth".
2. There are some who believe that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.
3. Of those, there are some who believe that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb.
4. However, those two beliefs allow for only 2 nights to be involved.
5. To account for the discrepancy, some of the above say that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language of the time, i.e., that it is was common to forecast or say that a day or a night would be involved with an event when no part of the day or no part of the night could occur.
6. In order for someone to legitimately say that it was common, they would have to know of more that 1 example to make that assertion.
I am simply wondering if anyone who falls in the above category might provide examples to support the idea of commonality?
Edited by rstrats, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by candle2, posted 01-05-2019 3:53 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Phat, posted 01-05-2019 5:05 PM rstrats has replied
 Message 149 by candle2, posted 02-11-2019 10:35 AM rstrats has replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 141 of 168 (846435)
01-05-2019 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Phat
01-05-2019 5:05 PM


Re: Matthew 12:40 Remix with our boy here
Phat,
re: "What's your basic argument in your own words?"
It's a good thing you specified that my response should be in my own words because otherwise I probably would be putting it in someone else's words. So in my own words, as far as I know, I've only made 3 arguments (if they can be called that):
1. That so far no one has provided any examples which show that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have occurred,
2. That to assert that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language, the asserter would have to know of examples in order to legitimately make the assertion of commonality.
3. That most of the replies have dealt with issues for a different topic.
re: "Why do you accept the explanation that you believe and reject the critics?"
I've read your question over several times and I'm afraid I don't understand it. Could you rephrase it?
Edited by rstrats, : No reason given.
Edited by rstrats, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Phat, posted 01-05-2019 5:05 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Phat, posted 01-06-2019 8:20 AM rstrats has replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 142 of 168 (846436)
01-05-2019 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by GDR
01-05-2019 7:55 PM


Re: Matthew 12:40 Remix with our boy here
GDR,
re: "Just a couple of comments."
Just so you understand that your comments deal with issues for a different topic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by GDR, posted 01-05-2019 7:55 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by GDR, posted 01-05-2019 9:42 PM rstrats has replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


(1)
Message 145 of 168 (846445)
01-06-2019 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by GDR
01-05-2019 9:42 PM


Re: Matthew 12:40 Remix with our boy here
GDR,
re: "I suggest that it is germane as I was making the point that the whole day and night thing is irrelevant."
I've considered your suggestion and have come to the same conclusion as before, i.e., that it is an issue for a different topic. This one is concerned with one issue and only one issue:
1. The Messiah said that three nights would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth".
2. There are some who believe that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.
3. Of those, there are some who believe that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the moment when His spirit left His body.
4. However, those two beliefs allow for only 2 nights to be involved.
5. To account for the discrepancy, some of the above say that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language of the time, i.e., that it is was common to forecast or say that a day or a night would be involved with an event when no part of the day or no part of the night could occur.
6. In order for someone to legitimately say that it was common, they would have to know of more that 1 example to make that assertion.
I am simply wondering if anyone in the above category knows of examples to support the idea of commonality?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by GDR, posted 01-05-2019 9:42 PM GDR has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by Capt Stormfield, posted 01-06-2019 1:46 PM rstrats has not replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 147 of 168 (846455)
01-06-2019 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Phat
01-06-2019 8:20 AM


Re: Purpose of The Topic
Phat,
re: "Sure. Looking back through this topic of yours, I see your prime motivation.
From what you've written I don't think that you do.
re: "jar brings up the point of 'so what'?"
That's an issue for a different topic.
re: " Basically, he was answering your question by agreeing with you that there likely was no example of common Jewish idiomatic speech."
He couldn't have been agreeing with me because I never said that.
re: "So I guess my question is why keep the topic going?"
Because there is always the possibility that someone new may visit this topic.
re: "What are the implications if your argument [assertion] is true?"
My assertion is that for someone to say that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language, then the person would have to know of examples in order to legitimately make the assertion of commonality. So if that is true, then it's more than an implication - it's a fact.
re: "Do you believe that the Bible is in any way inerrant, reliable, or accurate in its claims?"
I have no belief one way or the other with regard to your question. It is, howerver, an issue for a different topic.
re: "If your three points can be accepted, what is your ending conclusion?"
That my curiosity would be satisfied with regard to the commonality of forecasting or saying that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have occurred.
re: "I will compliment you though for hanging in there with EvC for over three years!"
Thanks. I kinda pride myself with having the patience ability.
Edited by rstrats, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Phat, posted 01-06-2019 8:20 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Phat, posted 01-06-2019 6:53 PM rstrats has not replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 151 of 168 (848597)
02-11-2019 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by candle2
02-11-2019 10:35 AM


cabdle2,
re: "The very essence of your question concerns 'time'."
Actually, the essence concerns the commonality of forecasting or saying that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have been.
re: "To assume that 3 days & 3 nights is equal to 1 day and 2 nights takes a leap of faith.
Indeed.
re: "I would gladly go out of my way to find examples (assuming there are any), if you show me why you or anyone else refuse to believe what Matthew so clearly stated"
I don't know about anyone else, but I see no reason to disbelieve Matthew's account.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by candle2, posted 02-11-2019 10:35 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by candle2, posted 02-11-2019 5:56 PM rstrats has replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 153 of 168 (848603)
02-11-2019 6:33 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by candle2
02-11-2019 5:56 PM


candle2,
I'm afraid I don't see what your comments have to do with this topic. I wonder if you might explain why you think that they do?
Edited by rstrats, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by candle2, posted 02-11-2019 5:56 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by candle2, posted 02-12-2019 6:40 AM rstrats has replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 155 of 168 (848617)
02-12-2019 7:55 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by candle2
02-12-2019 6:40 AM


candle2,
re: "In your original post you asked for 'other instances' where a period of one day and three nights was in JIL commonly referred to as '3 days & 3 nights"
I don't see where I asked that. What do you have in mind?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by candle2, posted 02-12-2019 6:40 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by candle2, posted 06-24-2019 12:05 PM rstrats has replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 157 of 168 (855877)
06-24-2019 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by candle2
06-24-2019 12:05 PM


candle2,
You say that you "would like to know if anyone is aware of instances in which an individual used 'common' sense language to express '3 days & 3 nights,' when this is exactly what that individual meant."
I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying. I wonder if you might word it differently?
BTW, you have a question directed to you in post #153.
Edited by rstrats, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by candle2, posted 06-24-2019 12:05 PM candle2 has not replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 158 of 168 (870800)
01-25-2020 7:38 AM


Since it's been awhile, perhaps someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by Phat, posted 01-25-2020 3:50 PM rstrats has replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 160 of 168 (870899)
01-26-2020 6:22 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Phat
01-25-2020 3:50 PM


Thugpreacha,
re: "I say move on from this topic. Its boring."
Might I then suggest that you just ignore it, especially since it appears that it doesn't apply to you.
re: "You can keep waiting for someone new to show up..."
OK, thanks.
re: "Don't you have anything new to discuss with us...?"
Not at the moment.
re: "Surely you could get a decent topic exchange going on a topic other than this one...?
This topic is not intended for exchanges going on. It merely is asking for examples which show that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur. No discussion is necessary.
Edited by rstrats, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Phat, posted 01-25-2020 3:50 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 162 of 168 (871074)
01-28-2020 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by WookieeB
01-27-2020 6:35 PM


WookieeB,
re: "Nevertheless, there is a way to explain it so that there are 3 actual nights being involved."
That would be an issue for a different topic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by WookieeB, posted 01-27-2020 6:35 PM WookieeB has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by candle2, posted 04-26-2020 7:10 AM rstrats has replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 164 of 168 (875438)
04-26-2020 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by candle2
04-26-2020 7:10 AM


candle2,
re: "Jesus was placed in the tomb just before the 'going down of the sun' on Wednesday."
That is an issue for a different topic. Perhaps you might start one.
But maybe someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by candle2, posted 04-26-2020 7:10 AM candle2 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by rstrats, posted 10-05-2021 7:02 AM rstrats has not replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 165 of 168 (888776)
10-05-2021 7:02 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by rstrats
04-26-2020 7:24 AM


And that "someone new" needs to be someone who believes the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with a 1st day of the week resurrection, and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb, and who tries to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language of the period.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by rstrats, posted 04-26-2020 7:24 AM rstrats has not replied

  
rstrats
Member (Idle past 130 days)
Posts: 138
Joined: 04-08-2004


Message 166 of 168 (895508)
07-04-2022 1:21 PM


Since it's been awhile, maybe someone new looking in may know of examples.

  
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