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Author Topic:   Did Justice Elena Kagan lie to Congress?
Sarah Bellum
Member (Idle past 596 days)
Posts: 826
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 1 of 66 (895499)
07-04-2022 9:33 AM


When Justice Kagan was appointed solicitor general in 2009, Senator Cornyn (R-Tex.) asked her about same-sex marriage. She said, "There is no federal constitutional right to same-sex marriage."
With her vote in Obergefell v. Hodges she did a 180, affirming that there is a constitutional right to same-sex marriage.
Can she be impeached for lying to Congress?

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Percy, posted 07-04-2022 11:14 AM Sarah Bellum has replied
 Message 4 by Theodoric, posted 07-04-2022 11:16 AM Sarah Bellum has replied
 Message 6 by ringo, posted 07-04-2022 12:16 PM Sarah Bellum has replied
 Message 7 by AZPaul3, posted 07-04-2022 12:24 PM Sarah Bellum has replied
 Message 35 by nwr, posted 07-05-2022 10:59 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member (Idle past 596 days)
Posts: 826
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 8 of 66 (895520)
07-05-2022 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Tanypteryx
07-04-2022 11:42 AM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
I have no particular desire to support any of the three justices you allude to. The recent decisions, especially the egregious firearms case, have done a great deal of damage. But threats to impeach justices for their opinions or - even worse - threats to simply enlarge the Court with ideologically correct appointees, which some otherwise respectable commentators have made recently, have a whiff of banana republic about them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-04-2022 11:42 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by PaulK, posted 07-05-2022 9:48 AM Sarah Bellum has replied
 Message 12 by Theodoric, posted 07-05-2022 9:52 AM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member (Idle past 596 days)
Posts: 826
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 9 of 66 (895522)
07-05-2022 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Theodoric
07-04-2022 11:16 AM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
quote
. . . Until then this is not worthy of a response.
Well then, thank you for not replying!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Theodoric, posted 07-04-2022 11:16 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Theodoric, posted 07-05-2022 9:26 AM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member (Idle past 596 days)
Posts: 826
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 13 of 66 (895535)
07-05-2022 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Theodoric
07-05-2022 9:52 AM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Theodoric, posted 07-05-2022 9:52 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Theodoric, posted 07-05-2022 2:42 PM Sarah Bellum has replied
 Message 19 by Theodoric, posted 07-05-2022 2:45 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member (Idle past 596 days)
Posts: 826
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 14 of 66 (895536)
07-05-2022 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Theodoric
07-05-2022 9:26 AM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
I'm quite enjoying this conversation we're not having. Please continue . . .

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Theodoric, posted 07-05-2022 9:26 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member (Idle past 596 days)
Posts: 826
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 15 of 66 (895537)
07-05-2022 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by ringo
07-04-2022 12:16 PM


Do you really think she changed her mind? Or simply told a convenient lie? Or maybe there was a third alternative, that she used enough cleverly chosen verbiage so that what she said wasn't a lie, but could be interpreted by her listeners in disparate ways?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by ringo, posted 07-04-2022 12:16 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Percy, posted 07-06-2022 9:12 AM Sarah Bellum has seen this message but not replied
 Message 46 by ringo, posted 07-07-2022 12:06 PM Sarah Bellum has not replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member (Idle past 596 days)
Posts: 826
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 16 of 66 (895538)
07-05-2022 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Percy
07-04-2022 11:14 AM


Oh, I'm quite sure she revised and extended her remarks!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Percy, posted 07-04-2022 11:14 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Percy, posted 07-06-2022 10:41 AM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member (Idle past 596 days)
Posts: 826
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 18 of 66 (895540)
07-05-2022 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by AZPaul3
07-04-2022 12:24 PM


Re: It's Politics
quote
First, at the time the question was asked Kagan was well within bounds and propriety. There was no such right.
That's an interesting interpretation! So it was like the legend of Galileo muttering "eppur si muove" . . . and Elena Kagan was quietly adding " . . . there is no federal constitutional right not right now, but there will be if I ever get on the Supreme Court"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by AZPaul3, posted 07-04-2022 12:24 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by AZPaul3, posted 07-05-2022 5:39 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member (Idle past 596 days)
Posts: 826
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 20 of 66 (895542)
07-05-2022 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Theodoric
07-05-2022 2:42 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
Hard? Actually it was quite trivial. Because that information has been in the news for everyone to see for quite some time. But as Orwell said, "To see what is in front of one’s nose needs a constant struggle."
Keep up the struggle!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Theodoric, posted 07-05-2022 2:42 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Theodoric, posted 07-05-2022 3:55 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member (Idle past 596 days)
Posts: 826
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 21 of 66 (895543)
07-05-2022 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by PaulK
07-05-2022 9:48 AM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
Oh yes, the impulses to do that sort of thing lurk on both sides of the aisle.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by PaulK, posted 07-05-2022 9:48 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by PaulK, posted 07-05-2022 2:58 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member (Idle past 596 days)
Posts: 826
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 22 of 66 (895544)
07-05-2022 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Theodoric
07-05-2022 2:45 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
Once again, Orwell could explain that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Theodoric, posted 07-05-2022 2:45 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Theodoric, posted 07-05-2022 3:57 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member (Idle past 596 days)
Posts: 826
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 24 of 66 (895546)
07-05-2022 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by PaulK
07-05-2022 2:58 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
Oh, no, if President Biden could appoint, say, four new justices, which he can, given Democrat control of Congress, that would bring things back into balance, and we could go back to Roe (though, really, instead of a complex, messy, Roe decision, we really should have one that says a woman can make decisions about her medical care without interference from the state. Period), not to mention fixing the firearms decision and so forth.
But is that really the way to do it? I mean, it's so much simpler (since Democrats have control of Congress) to just pass a law codifying Roe (the Dobbs decision doesn't say Congress can't!)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by PaulK, posted 07-05-2022 2:58 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by PaulK, posted 07-05-2022 3:31 PM Sarah Bellum has replied
 Message 39 by Percy, posted 07-06-2022 10:52 AM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member (Idle past 596 days)
Posts: 826
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 29 of 66 (895554)
07-05-2022 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Theodoric
07-05-2022 3:55 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
If I made a comment about mass shootings in America without providing links to articles about mass shootings and someone answered my comment by wondering "what mass shootings?" and demanding references, how would you feel about that person?
And if I then gave them references and their answer was something condescending like, "Was that so hard? That is how we do things in this forum," how would you feel about that person?
It calls to mind another line from a book by Orwell: "Ignorance is Strength"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Theodoric, posted 07-05-2022 3:55 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Theodoric, posted 07-05-2022 6:32 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member (Idle past 596 days)
Posts: 826
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 30 of 66 (895555)
07-05-2022 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by PaulK
07-05-2022 3:31 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
A "reversal" would scarcely be necessary. In Dobbs the Supreme Court didn't "ban" abortion, it merely returned us to the (very bad days) of pre-Roe abortion law.
All Congress has to do now is pass a law guaranteeing a right to an abortion. Such a law wouldn't be struck down by the Supreme Court (otherwise it would have already struck down laws in states like Oregon or Vermont).
Democrats have used their pro-abortion stands mostly as fund-raising opportunities. Now it's time for them to actually find out if they stand for what they say they stand for.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by PaulK, posted 07-05-2022 3:31 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by PaulK, posted 07-06-2022 12:14 AM Sarah Bellum has not replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member (Idle past 596 days)
Posts: 826
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 31 of 66 (895556)
07-05-2022 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Theodoric
07-05-2022 3:57 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
No, no, of course not! And the next time I make mention of something that's common knowledge and you don't understand it, rest assured, I'll hunt up references and explain it to you. I'll even use short words, if necessary.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Theodoric, posted 07-05-2022 3:57 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-05-2022 9:17 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
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