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Author Topic:   Coffee House Musings on Creationist Topic Proposals
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 196 of 1429 (895304)
06-21-2022 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Tanypteryx
06-20-2022 2:28 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Tanyptyeryx writes:
That's what a scientific theory is, everything we know about the subject.
Try as it might, not even decades of unrelenting Darwinist propaganda can turn a theory into a fact - ie, knowledge.
Your irrational attempt to equate a theory with knowledge is typical of Darwinists and demonstrates how thoroughly deluded they are.
This has already been answered a bunch of times. Novel body plans and organs evolve through reproduction, with changes from generation to generation (descent with modification), and nature selects for differential reproductive success. Novel body plan and organs evolve the same way as all other biological features, they are only recognized as novel when humans compare them to ancestral forms.
Your theorizing is just bluff and is as meaningless as a fairy tale.
Take an organism and evolve a novel body plan or organ from it - then I will accept that you know how evolution works.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-20-2022 2:28 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by ringo, posted 06-21-2022 11:48 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 199 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-21-2022 12:06 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 208 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-21-2022 6:50 PM Dredge has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 197 of 1429 (895305)
06-21-2022 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 190 by Dredge
06-21-2022 9:34 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Dredge writes:
Your reluctance to discuss HOW novel body plans and organs evolve is perfectly understandable - why would you want to discuss things you know nothing about?
Message 120

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Dredge, posted 06-21-2022 9:34 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by Dredge, posted 07-09-2022 9:55 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 198 of 1429 (895306)
06-21-2022 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by Dredge
06-21-2022 11:23 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Dredge writes:
Try as it might, not even decades of unrelenting Darwinist propaganda can turn a theory into a fact - ie, knowledge.
A theory is an explanation of a fact. So no, a theory doesn't "become" a fact. Never has, never will. Nobody but an illiterate anti-science dimwit would ever suggest that a theory "turns into" a fact.
But evolution is a fact. And the theory of Evolution is an explanation of that fact.
The theory of Evolution is the best explanation we have for the fact of evolution. In fact, it's the only theory. If you illiterate anti-science goobers could come up with an alternative theory, you might have a chance of defeating evolution.
Dredge writes:
Take an organism and evolve a novel body plan or organ from it - then I will accept that you know how evolution works.
Message 120

Edited by ringo, : Added last paragraph.


"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Dredge, posted 06-21-2022 11:23 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Dredge, posted 07-09-2022 10:25 PM ringo has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 199 of 1429 (895308)
06-21-2022 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Dredge
06-21-2022 11:23 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Describe a novel body plan or organ. Novel compared to what?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Dredge, posted 06-21-2022 11:23 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 200 of 1429 (895310)
06-21-2022 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by ringo
06-03-2022 12:04 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
ringo writes:
Don't just deny, deny, deny.
??? What am I denying?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by ringo, posted 06-03-2022 12:04 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by AZPaul3, posted 06-21-2022 3:26 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 210 by ringo, posted 06-21-2022 9:20 PM Dredge has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 201 of 1429 (895311)
06-21-2022 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by Dredge
06-21-2022 10:52 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
We know how novel features form in the population. We know the molecular and genetic processes that produce novel proteins and new combinations to produce novel features. We produce new body plans and weird configurations of drosophila and other bugs in the lab every day.
So what kind of satan-induced catholic lie is this “you don’t know” crap? We do know and we manipulate that knowledge to our own benefit every day. Despite your black-hearted lies we know these things with a great deal of certainty.
So what is missing that you say we don’t know?
And while you’re explaining, please explain why your catholic conception of a god is so murderous, blood thirsty and evil?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Dredge, posted 06-21-2022 10:52 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by Dredge, posted 07-09-2022 10:48 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 202 of 1429 (895312)
06-21-2022 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Dredge
06-21-2022 3:20 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
??? What am I denying?
Reality, truth, justice, the American way, sanity, logic, reason.
In your fantasy world you ignore all of life with your evil horror of a god.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Dredge, posted 06-21-2022 3:20 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 203 of 1429 (895313)
06-21-2022 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Dredge
06-21-2022 9:34 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Dredge writes:
No kidding! Your reluctance to discuss HOW novel body plans and organs evolve is perfectly understandable - why would you want to discuss things you know nothing about? All that would do is demonstrate that you don't know how evolution works.
Your refusal to say whether you accept that evolution has happened means that's there's little point discussing how it happened. You're just yet another fake Christian, boring troll.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Dredge, posted 06-21-2022 9:34 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by Dredge, posted 07-09-2022 11:04 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 204 of 1429 (895315)
06-21-2022 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Tanypteryx
06-03-2022 3:50 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Tanypteryx writes:
What matters is that you can't describe any novel body plan or organ. I don't think you can point to a single novel body plan or novel organ. The evolutionary process is descent with modification, not poof with modification.
Can you describe the step-by-step process involved in the (alleged) evolution of an amphibian's double-circulation heart from a fish's single-circlation heart? No - you don't even know how that process got to first base. All you can do is speculate - speculation doesn't demonstrate knowledge.
Can you describe the step-by-step process involved in the (alleged) evolution of a whale's blowhole or tail?
No - you don't even know how that process got to first base. All you can do is speculate - speculation doesn't demonstrate knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-03-2022 3:50 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by kjsimons, posted 06-21-2022 5:41 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 206 by AZPaul3, posted 06-21-2022 5:58 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 209 by ringo, posted 06-21-2022 9:07 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 211 by Stile, posted 06-22-2022 8:42 AM Dredge has replied

  
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 205 of 1429 (895316)
06-21-2022 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Dredge
06-21-2022 4:55 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Listen asshole, since you can't describe cell division by cell division how you came to exist, then you can't possibly exist! So just f off unless you want to have a reasonable discussion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Dredge, posted 06-21-2022 4:55 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by Dredge, posted 07-09-2022 11:38 PM kjsimons has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 206 of 1429 (895317)
06-21-2022 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Dredge
06-21-2022 4:55 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Can you describe the step-by-step ...
Yes, we can.
Can you describe step-by-step how your god removed the rib? Can you describe step-by-step how your god created the heavens and the earth?
No. Then he didn’t do it and your catechism is fake.
Can you show step-by-step how you were potty trained?
No. Then you aren’t.
Can you describe the step-by-step ...
Yes, we can, to a rational and reasonable man, but not to a religious nutter.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Dredge, posted 06-21-2022 4:55 PM Dredge has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 207 of 1429 (895318)
06-21-2022 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by Dredge
06-21-2022 10:46 AM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
No one can possibly know the processes involved in the evolution of novel body plans or organs ... therefore no one can possibly claim to know how evolution works.
Gunter Bechly came up with a similar challenge. And several biologists answered it. But, of course, Bechly rejected all of their answers, because what he was really asking was a matter of his subjective opinion. And he was not about to accept any responses to his challenge.
See the discussion here:

Bechly’s “Species Pairs” Challenge

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Dredge, posted 06-21-2022 10:46 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by dwise1, posted 06-22-2022 10:37 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied
 Message 283 by Dredge, posted 07-09-2022 11:59 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied
 Message 485 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-02-2022 1:28 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 208 of 1429 (895319)
06-21-2022 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Dredge
06-21-2022 11:23 AM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Try as it might, not even decades of unrelenting Darwinist propaganda can turn a theory into a fact - ie, knowledge.
Well, you fail to surprise me yet again. Your unsurprising lack of knowledge about scientific theories makes it difficult to explain anything to you.
Your irrational attempt to equate a theory with knowledge is typical of Darwinists and demonstrates how thoroughly deluded they are.
Actually, I'm happy with my understanding that a scientific theory explains all the knowledge in the relevant field and none of the wild assed guesses of your catholic pedophile cult. I don't know any Darwinists, but I know what all scientists mean when they talk about theories, which you irrationally think is a wild assed guess, like your cult.
Your theorizing is just bluff and is as meaningless as a fairy tale.
Awe, but your catholic cult actually is a fairy tale.
Take an organism and evolve a novel body plan or organ from it
As soon as you define a novel body plan or organ and explain what you are comparing its uniqueness to, and why.
We've told you what we know, microevolution, descent with modification, repeated each generation, but you reject it. You seem to think there is some magic or something, but the evidence doesn't show anything else and supports what we've told you.
then I will accept that you know how evolution works.
Like I said earlier, I'm happy with what I know. I've never expected or sought your acceptance.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Dredge, posted 06-21-2022 11:23 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by Dredge, posted 07-10-2022 12:34 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 209 of 1429 (895320)
06-21-2022 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Dredge
06-21-2022 4:55 PM


Re: Dredge Doesn't Think
Dredge writes:
Can you describe the step-by-step process involved in the (alleged) evolution of a whale's blowhole or tail?
Message 120

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Dredge, posted 06-21-2022 4:55 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 210 of 1429 (895321)
06-21-2022 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Dredge
06-21-2022 3:20 PM


Re: Dredge thinks not knowing everything is not knowing anything
Dredge writes:
What am I denying?
You're denying that we know how evolution works. I have explained the whale's blowhole in Message 120 and I have linked to that message several times but you just keep repeating the same lie.
DISCUSS.
If you don't understand, ASK.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Dredge, posted 06-21-2022 3:20 PM Dredge has not replied

  
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