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Author | Topic: Anti-theist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Phat writes:
...I would not give most apologists anything much less everything.ringo writes:
OK lets have it your way. IF Jesus exists eternally and outside of the book, I often promise Him that He can have it all since it is all His anyway. That being said, I'm not rushing off to sell my house or my investments. I'm not a wealthy man anyway. TBH, my net worth is under 200K. (and half of that is the house) You give them an ear. Now unlike your assumptions of how He must sound to me, I don't hear Jesus speaking to me through words He has said to others...at least not unless it convicts me. This is no way means that I "scoff at what He says." As I said earlier, thats all on me. If the Government got in financial trouble and had anecessary BaiL-In "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Does your pension belong to you or to the people-at-large?
If you withdrew it from the bank and did not hand it over to the friendly government, would the people have a right to seize it? How about if you had a safety deposit box and they froze it? These answers likely will reflect what I dislike about liberal Authoritarianism."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
He doesn't.
IF Jesus exists eternally and outside of the book... Phat writes:
That's a convenient cop-out. "It's all yours, Jesus. I'll just continue to use it until to come back and ask for it." Donald Trump could say the same thing. ... I often promise Him that He can have it all since it is all His anyway. But YOU do not get to decide who uses it.
Phat writes:
Oh, I know that. He has a special message just for you: "Never mind what I said to those people in the New Testament. Here's the REAL scoop - You keep it all and use it at your convenience. This generation - YOUR privileged generation - shall not pass before I come back and give you your special private instructions."
Now unlike your assumptions of how He must sound to me, I don't hear Jesus speaking to me through words He has said to others... Phat writes:
You scoff at the idea of giving it all up. You say it's impossible - even though many people have done it throughout history. Sounds like scoffing to me. This is no way means that I "scoff at what He says.""I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Are you talking to me? Does your pension belong to you or to the people-at-large? I once heard a clergyman say that he doesn't receive a salary or a wage. He receives a stipend. A stipend pays his expenses so he doesn't have to go out and get a regular job, leaving his time free to do the work of the church - e.g. visiting the sick. I think of my pension like a stipend. It pays my expenses so I don't have to go out and take a job away from a younger person who needs it more than I do.
Phat writes:
1. The people ARE the government. If you withdrew it from the bank and did not hand it over to the friendly government, would the people have a right to seize it?2. We're not talking about turning anything over to the government. 3. We're no talking about the people seizing anything. 4. We're talking about VOLUNTARILY giving it up. Phat writes:
See above.
How about if you had a safety deposit box and they froze it? Phat writes:
"Liberal Authoritarianism" is a lie that your far-right-wing handlers are feeding you. I have never, in any way, shape or form, advocated the government taking anything from you by force. STOP making that stupid claim. These answers likely will reflect what I dislike about liberal Authoritarianism."I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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nwr Member Posts: 6410 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Does your pension belong to you or to the people-at-large? That doesn't even make sense.
If you withdrew it from the bank and did not hand it over to the friendly government, would the people have a right to seize it? I'm not sure that makes sense, either. My pension is direct deposited to my bank account. I withdraw as needed. And I do pay taxes on that pension. Is paying taxes what you mean by "hand it over to the friendly government?" I don't think of it that way. I think of it as paying my share of the support services that I depend on.
How about if you had a safety deposit box and they froze it? I'm not sure what that's all about either.
These answers likely will reflect what I dislike about liberal Authoritarianism. It seems that what you dislike about liberals, is the bullshit that you have made up in your head.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Jesus never said to give it all to him. He said to use it to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, comfort the sorrowful, heal the sick and protect the helpless.
My Website: My Website
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: And that's expected...and fair enough for any Christian. ringo seems to emphasize the wholly nonsensical position that Jesus told Christians (and only Christians) to sell everything they have and follow Him. So what does this mean today? There is obviously no apologist or preacher worth following. Jesus never said to give it all to him. He said to use it to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, comfort the sorrowful, heal the sick and protect the helpless. To me, it means following His example and feeding people, for instance. But no one cashes out their bank accounts and investments so that the homeless population of Pheonix has a grand week of meals, for example. Sheltering the homeless can be done through community taxation or, if one is wealthy, through a 501-C3 donation or direct involvement with their local church, which costs time rather than money. The issue which sticks in my craw is the argument that I MUST give up everything and become poor myself. Do YOU do that, jar? Are you now poor and happily serving your community? Or do you, as most of us, realize that only YOU can plan for your own retirement (likely already happened) and can better serve the community while still having a place to stay."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Phat writes: But no one cashes out their bank accounts and investments so that the homeless population of Pheonix has a grand week of meals, for example But what would Jesus do Phat?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yes Phat, I'm pretty much poor, well better off them some but my house costs less than a Jeep Grand Waggoneer.
But remember it's not any of us telling you that you must be poor, it was Jesus.My Website: My Website
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
That's exactly what He said, "Sell what you have and give to the poor." That's exactly what His disciples did. ringo seems to emphasize the wholly nonsensical position that Jesus told Christians (and only Christians) to sell everything they have and follow Him. YOU keep claiming that I want the government to seize everything you have, despite me telling you repeatedly that it's supposed to be VOLUNTARY.
Phat writes:
The same as it meant 2000 years ago. So what does this mean today?"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!" -- Lucky Ned Pepper
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Just in case you actually haven't read it
The Rich and the Kingdom of God 18A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 19“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 20You know the commandments: ‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’ ” 21“All these I have kept since I was a boy,” he said. 22When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” 23When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was very wealthy. 24Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! 25Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” 26Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” 27Jesus replied, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.” 28Peter said to him, “We have left all we had to follow you!” 29“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Why should I listen to The suggestions or commands of a character limited to a book. )(according to you).
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Why should I listen to The suggestions or commands of a character limited to a book. (according to you).
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8549 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
I'll let Tangle respond to the first one.
Why should I listen to The suggestions or commands of a character limited to a book. [grammar: nazi] ? [/grammar] You shouldn't.Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Phat writes: Why should I listen to The suggestions or commands of a character limited to a book. )(according to you). Because you profess to believe in the book, the man and what he says. It's not me saying you have to do it, I just quoted directly from what Jesus says in the book you say you believe in. But it's obvious from what you actually do rather than what you say, that you do not believe it at all. To me he's a fictional character in a book, but you tell us that he's real, not only then but also now. Yet you don't do what he says you must do. The only interpretation is that you don't believe in him either.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine. "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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