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Author Topic:   Anti-theist
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 611 of 895 (894719)
05-27-2022 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 610 by AZPaul3
05-22-2022 9:24 AM


Re: Proof!
I don't see the humor.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 610 by AZPaul3, posted 05-22-2022 9:24 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 613 by nwr, posted 05-27-2022 11:58 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 612 of 895 (894720)
05-27-2022 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 607 by AZPaul3
05-17-2022 11:17 AM


Re: Prayer For The Universe
Scripture clearly shows that neither Paul nor Peter are the head of any church.
Of course you have this idea in your head that religion has always been hateful so I doubt the scripture will mean anything to you!
1 Cor 3:4-12 writes:
4 For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not carnal?
5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase. 8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9 For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
NKJV
In other words, no human is in charge of the church except God's character, the Lord Jesus Christ. (sorry to burst any Catholic bubbles of human infallibility)

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 607 by AZPaul3, posted 05-17-2022 11:17 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 614 by AZPaul3, posted 05-27-2022 7:35 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 618 of 895 (894760)
05-28-2022 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 617 by jar
05-28-2022 9:01 AM


Re: Prayer For The Universe
jar writes:
everything evolves over time particularly as some of the absolute basics turn out to be false like the "End Times".
How could anyone possibly know that the End Times are false until the "End" occurs?
Humans will hopefully do everything in their power to prevent any "end" from occurring...though the jury is out on that one.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 617 by jar, posted 05-28-2022 9:01 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 619 by jar, posted 05-28-2022 3:40 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 620 of 895 (894769)
05-28-2022 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 619 by jar
05-28-2022 3:40 PM


Re: Prayer For The Universe
So in other words, you don't see Jesus as having any special foresight as to what's happening today.
And you have said before that GOD if GOD exists likely wouldn't consider humans any more special than pond scum. (or ants. Or birds.)

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 619 by jar, posted 05-28-2022 3:40 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 621 by jar, posted 05-28-2022 4:50 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 634 of 895 (894832)
05-30-2022 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 632 by ringo
05-30-2022 12:58 PM


Re: Prayer For The Universe
The greatest among you will be a servant...maybe he WAS the Janitor.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 632 by ringo, posted 05-30-2022 12:58 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 639 by ringo, posted 05-31-2022 11:54 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 651 of 895 (894929)
06-03-2022 3:07 AM
Reply to: Message 645 by ringo
06-02-2022 12:00 PM


Giving It All Up. An Arguable Theme
One problem. There are no trustworthy Apostles at whose feet we should lay our goods. I certainly wouldn't give it all up to the government.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 645 by ringo, posted 06-02-2022 12:00 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 652 by jar, posted 06-03-2022 7:55 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 653 by ringo, posted 06-03-2022 11:40 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 654 of 895 (894960)
06-03-2022 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 653 by ringo
06-03-2022 11:40 AM


Re: Giving It All Up. An Arguable Theme
ringo writes:
But if the government came for everything you have, you would certainly give it up. They don't take no for an answer.
You make the government sound like the mafia.
And I would not give most apologists anything much less everything.
ringo writes:
If you refuse to do it, it's on you.
Then it will be on me.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 653 by ringo, posted 06-03-2022 11:40 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 655 by ringo, posted 06-03-2022 9:06 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 656 of 895 (895016)
06-06-2022 4:28 AM
Reply to: Message 655 by ringo
06-03-2022 9:06 PM


Re: Giving It All Up. An Arguable Theme
phat writes:
And I would not give most apologists anything much less everything.
ringo writes:
You give them an ear.
And you do what? Shut your ears to all of them? No wonder you never change.
Anti-theist Surprised by God – Jeff Dockman’s Story
/.test(t.secret)){for(var r,a,i,s=d.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret="'+t.secret+'"]'),n=d.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret="'+t.secret+'"]'),o=0;o

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 655 by ringo, posted 06-03-2022 9:06 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 657 by ringo, posted 06-06-2022 11:48 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 661 of 895 (895070)
06-07-2022 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 655 by ringo
06-03-2022 9:06 PM


Re: Giving It All Up. An Arguable Theme
Phat writes:
...I would not give most apologists anything much less everything.
ringo writes:
You give them an ear.
OK lets have it your way. IF Jesus exists eternally and outside of the book, I often promise Him that He can have it all since it is all His anyway. That being said, I'm not rushing off to sell my house or my investments. I'm not a wealthy man anyway. TBH, my net worth is under 200K. (and half of that is the house)
Now unlike your assumptions of how He must sound to me, I don't hear Jesus speaking to me through words He has said to others...at least not unless it convicts me. This is no way means that I "scoff at what He says." As I said earlier, thats all on me. If the Government got in financial trouble and had a
necessary BaiL-In

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 655 by ringo, posted 06-03-2022 9:06 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 662 by Phat, posted 06-07-2022 12:28 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 663 by ringo, posted 06-07-2022 12:38 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 662 of 895 (895071)
06-07-2022 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 661 by Phat
06-07-2022 12:20 PM


Whose Money Is It Anyway?
Does your pension belong to you or to the people-at-large?
If you withdrew it from the bank and did not hand it over to the friendly government, would the people have a right to seize it?
How about if you had a safety deposit box and they froze it?
These answers likely will reflect what I dislike about liberal Authoritarianism.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 661 by Phat, posted 06-07-2022 12:20 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 664 by ringo, posted 06-07-2022 12:51 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 665 by nwr, posted 06-07-2022 12:57 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 666 by jar, posted 06-07-2022 2:22 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 667 of 895 (895088)
06-07-2022 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 666 by jar
06-07-2022 2:22 PM


Re: Whose Money Is It Anyway?
jar writes:
Jesus never said to give it all to him. He said to use it to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, comfort the sorrowful, heal the sick and protect the helpless.
And that's expected...and fair enough for any Christian. ringo seems to emphasize the wholly nonsensical position that Jesus told Christians (and only Christians) to sell everything they have and follow Him. So what does this mean today? There is obviously no apologist or preacher worth following.
To me, it means following His example and feeding people, for instance. But no one cashes out their bank accounts and investments so that the homeless population of Pheonix has a grand week of meals, for example. Sheltering the homeless can be done through community taxation or, if one is wealthy, through a 501-C3 donation or direct involvement with their local church, which costs time rather than money.
The issue which sticks in my craw is the argument that I MUST give up everything and become poor myself. Do YOU do that, jar? Are you now poor and happily serving your community? Or do you, as most of us, realize that only YOU can plan for your own retirement (likely already happened) and can better serve the community while still having a place to stay.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 666 by jar, posted 06-07-2022 2:22 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 668 by Tangle, posted 06-07-2022 5:49 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 669 by jar, posted 06-07-2022 5:49 PM Phat has replied
 Message 670 by ringo, posted 06-08-2022 11:45 AM Phat has replied
 Message 671 by Tangle, posted 06-08-2022 12:08 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 672 of 895 (895182)
06-12-2022 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 671 by Tangle
06-08-2022 12:08 PM


Re: Whose Money Is It Anyway?
Why should I listen to The suggestions or commands of a character limited to a book. )(according to you).

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 671 by Tangle, posted 06-08-2022 12:08 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 675 by Tangle, posted 06-13-2022 2:24 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 673 of 895 (895183)
06-12-2022 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 671 by Tangle
06-08-2022 12:08 PM


Re: Whose Money Is It Anyway?
Why should I listen to The suggestions or commands of a character limited to a book. (according to you).

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 671 by Tangle, posted 06-08-2022 12:08 PM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 674 by AZPaul3, posted 06-12-2022 7:27 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 676 of 895 (895201)
06-14-2022 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 670 by ringo
06-08-2022 11:45 AM


Re: Whose Money Is It Anyway?
That's exactly what He said, "Sell what you have and give to the poor." That's exactly what His disciples did.
Not *everyone that He knew did this. Mary and Martha didn't. The Roman Centurion didn't.
YOU keep claiming that I want the government to seize everything you have, despite me telling you repeatedly that it's supposed to be VOLUNTARY.
Exactly! Voluntary. The disciples did it as did the widow and the followers in Acts. BFD. EVERYONE that He spoke to didn't do it.
Phat writes:
So what does this mean today?
rngo writes:
The same as it meant 2000 years ago.
So why is it necessary to become totally broke?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 670 by ringo, posted 06-08-2022 11:45 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 680 by AZPaul3, posted 06-14-2022 4:38 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 686 by ringo, posted 06-16-2022 11:57 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 677 of 895 (895202)
06-14-2022 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 675 by Tangle
06-13-2022 2:24 AM


Re: Whose Money Is It Anyway?
The only interpretation is that you don't believe in him either.
Not true.
I believe that He wants me to be a cheerful giver and not begrudging or of necessity. The "certain" rich young ruler was aware that he lacked something. I do not feel that way.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 675 by Tangle, posted 06-13-2022 2:24 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 679 by Tangle, posted 06-14-2022 3:29 PM Phat has not replied

  
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