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Topic: When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 630 of 794 (888045)
08-31-2021 12:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 627 by Phat
08-30-2021 2:21 PM
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Re: Tangled Up Hypotheticals
Phat writes: I'm not talking about Catholicism ve Protestantism. Nor any of the other clubs within Christianity.
But I am. I'm asking if you consider all of those Christian clubs to be "true" Christians. What about the "liberal" Christians who don't try to argue away what Jesus said? What about the ones who actually LIVE what Jesus said? Honestly, you're only counting the handful of right-wing fundamentalist wingnuts who agree with your theology, aren't you? You lump the "liberal" Christians who agree with me in with the Hindus and the Mormons and the other heathens, don't you?
Phat writes: We have a few contrarians such as you who don't even believe Jesus is an actual person, but we let you come to the picnics anyway.
You are the few.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 627 by Phat, posted 08-30-2021 2:21 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 631 by dwise1, posted 08-31-2021 2:58 PM | | ringo has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 640 of 794 (888057)
09-01-2021 3:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 632 by dwise1
08-31-2021 3:38 PM
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Re: Diabetes
dwise1 writes: please take in this piece of Jewish wisdom from the Pirke Avoth, the Sayings of the Fathers: quote:
If I am not for myself, who will be?
If I am only for myself, what am I?
If not now, then when?
I just saw that again the other day. I think it was in Leo Rosten's The Joys of Yiddish. Here's another story he told, in my own words:
Goebbels, the Nazi, says to a Rabbi: "Teach me the Talmud." Rabbi: I don't think you're ready to study Talmud." Goebbels (indignantly): "Why not?" Rabbi: "When a boy asks me to teach him Talmud, I ask him three questions to see if he's ready." Goebbels: "So ask me the questions." Rabbi: "All right. Two men fall down a chimney. One comes out dirty, one comes out clean. Which one washes?" Goebbels: "The dirty one washes, of course." Rabbi (shaking his head): "No. The dirty one looks at the clean one and he says, ' Amazing! We fell down a chimney and didn't get dirty.' So he doesn't wash. The clean one looks at the dirty one and says, ' We sure got dirty falling down that chimney.' So he washes." Goebbels (unimpressed): "Ask me the second question." Rabbi: "Two men fall down a chimney...." Goebbels: "That's the same question." Rabbi (shaking his head): "No. A different chimney. Two different men. Different points of view." Geobbels: "Okay...." Rabbi: "Two men fall down a chimney. One comes out dirty, one comes out clean. Which one washes?" Goebbels (not to be fooled again): "The dirty one washes." Rabbi (shaking his head): "No. The clean one looks at his hands and he says, ' Amazing! We fell down a chimney and didn't get dirty.' So he doesn't wash. The dirty one looks at his hands and says, ' We sure got dirty falling down that chimney.' So he washes." Goebbels (getting angry: "Ask me the third question." Rabbi: "Two men fall down a chimney...." Goebbels: "That's the same question again!" Rabbi (shaking his head): "No. Another different chimney. Two more different men. Two more different points of view." Geobbels: "But... either one washes or the other washes. Those are the only two possibilities." Rabbi: "No. Nobody falls down a chimney and comes out clean. If you couldn't figure that out on the first question, you're not ready to study Talmud."
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 632 by dwise1, posted 08-31-2021 3:38 PM | | dwise1 has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 642 of 794 (888061)
09-01-2021 3:43 PM
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Reply to: Message 641 by Phat
09-01-2021 3:36 PM
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Re: Hypothetically Speaking
Phat writes: Do you want to hear a modern lie? All Gods are characters in books or figments of our imaginations.
You've never been able to demonstrate that that isn't true. And you've never been able to demonstrate that YOUR god is real.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 641 by Phat, posted 09-01-2021 3:36 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 643 by Phat, posted 09-01-2021 3:50 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 644 of 794 (888063)
09-01-2021 4:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 643 by Phat
09-01-2021 3:50 PM
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Re: Hypothetically Speaking
Phat writes: Well if you think i'm simply going to sell all that I have in order to prove it to you or anybody else, you will have a long wait.
That wouldn't prove anything about God. It would only prove that your faith is real. Lots of people have faith in gods that aren't real. And lots of people have "faith" that isn't real.
Phat writes: Besides I think I figured this out...you refused to pay taxes and justified it by giving money to your street friends.
Wrong on both counts. I didn't "refuse" to pay taxes. I couldn't pay the taxes. I didn't have the money. There's a difference between giving a couple of dollars to the poor and paying thousands in taxes. And though they are my neighbors and my brothers in the way Jesus spoke of them, they're not my "friends", per se. They're strangers. I seldom see any of them more than once.
Phat writes: Then when the government came to seize the house...you justified walking away from it because you were listening to "the message".
Wrong. There was never anything to "justify". If I hadn't walked away I would have been thrown out.
Phat writes: And now you want me to do the same thing if I had half a heart.
It has nothing to do what I want. It's what Jesus wants.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 643 by Phat, posted 09-01-2021 3:50 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 654 by Phat, posted 09-02-2021 7:57 AM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 660 of 794 (888089)
09-02-2021 12:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 654 by Phat
09-02-2021 7:57 AM
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Re: Hypothetically Speaking
Phat writes: Why on earth would I listen to jar or you regarding anything Jesus wants when both of you believe that the stories are simply tales told round a campfire?
Well, YOU are the one who dismisses what's IN the stories.
Phat writes: You try and hold me to the book 100%.
I have neither the power nor the inclination to hold you to anything. I just wonder how you could reject the only actual source of Jesus' words that we have.
Phat writes: I will *never* limit myself to a static word-for-word interpretation.
In other words, you will *always* look for an easy way out. And your over-reaction suggests that you feel guilty about it.
Phat writes: Amen, Pastor John.
I'm not going to read that. Why do you quote what some goober writes about the Bible when you reject the Bible? If you're true to form, you don't understand it anyway. If you want it considered, make the points in your own words.
Phat writes: Ringo and jar can defend the book as word for word literal...
I don't.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 654 by Phat, posted 09-02-2021 7:57 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 684 of 794 (894602)
05-23-2022 1:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 675 by Phat
05-21-2022 3:42 PM
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Re: Ringo/Phat Synopsis
Phat writes: I will admit to being nervous over the possibility of a one-world secular manifesto.
Unlikely to happen. Secularists don't march in lock-step.
Phat writes: ringo writes: You refuse resolutely to discuss the idea that your apologists are liars.
I will try and discuss it, but keep in mind that humans, in general, tend to lie.
I don't think that's true.
Phat writes: I would go so far as to say that in any diplomatic situation, lies and exaggerated falsehoods are usually involved by at least one party.
And in context, that party is the apologists.
"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 675 by Phat, posted 05-21-2022 3:42 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 689 of 794 (894620)
05-24-2022 11:43 AM
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Reply to: Message 687 by Phat
05-24-2022 11:04 AM
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Re: Steering Back Towaards The Topic
The collapse of society is rapidly accelerating.
Nonsense.
"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 687 by Phat, posted 05-24-2022 11:04 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 699 of 794 (894664)
05-25-2022 12:52 PM
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Reply to: Message 692 by Phat
05-24-2022 3:07 PM
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Re: JarThink
Phat writes: Your problem initially was in ditching the entire concept of belief.
I have not ditched the concept of belief; I have put it where it belongs - in last place. If there is no evidence, then and only then are you allowed to fall back on belief. Evidence ALWAYS trumps belief.
Phat writes: I suspect you did it partially because you saw no evidence that believers were willing to go all the way.
That's one reaon why I don't believe YOUR faith is real.
Phat writes: Do you see truth being manifested through secular humanism?
Of course. We're a social species. Helping each other improves our chances of survival.
Because those goddamn lying apologists have convinced you that "secular humanist" is a dirty word.
Phat writes: You would claim that the truth is found in evidence. I would challenge that and say that the truth is only found in humans and their inner motives and desires.
ringo writes: What a load of rubbish.
See what I mean?
No. Why don't you just say what you mean?
Phat writes: I'll call you out on this one. What scriptures have I misused recently?
Genesis 2. You call the truth a lie and the lie truth. And you have continually denied what Jesus said about giving up everything for Him.
Phat writes: I have only questioned the idea that a true Christian (and only them) should give up all that they have. Nobody has that much faith these days, early Apostles and widows with two mites notwithstanding.
And you really don't see how stupid that sounds? "I don't have enough faith, so I'll just ignore what Jesus said."
Phat writes: Am I so different from you?
Yes. And I have told you this so very, very many times that you should remember it by now: You claim to believe in the guy who told you to do it. I don't feel obligated to do what Long Jon Silver said because I don't believe he ever existed.
Phat writes: I would believe that if God wanted to be understood, He would impress that truth on those who had ears to hear.
I believe that if God existed, He would impress that truth on those who had ears to hear.
Phat writes: Some of us are unknowingly and/or consciously in denial. Pot meet Kettle.
What am I in denial of?
Phat writes: I evaluated the logic and reasonableness of giving every materialistic thing up and rejected it because I did not have the faith of a Raven.
Then what's the point in pretending to believe?
Phat writes: What's your excuse?
See above. See all of the other times I have answered the same question? What's your excuse for asking the same stupid question over and over and over again and ignoring the answer?
"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 692 by Phat, posted 05-24-2022 3:07 PM | | Phat has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 703 by Phat, posted 05-27-2022 1:24 AM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 708 of 794 (894731)
05-27-2022 1:17 PM
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Reply to: Message 703 by Phat
05-27-2022 1:24 AM
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Re: JarThink
Phat writes: What scriptures have I misused recently?
ringo writes: Genesis 2. You call the truth a lie and the lie truth.
No. I call your (and) jars interpretation of the truth a lie.
It's not an interpretation. It's what the Bible says.
Phat writes: God does not lie. (There would be no reason to do so)
Sure there would. A parent sometimes lies to his child to protect him.
Phat writes: And there is no truth in the devil, according to scripture.
There is no devil in Genesis 2.
Phat writes: Secular humanism is neither good nor evil.
And yet you never say anything good about it.
Phat writes: It is simply mans attempt to ignore the "God concept" and figure life out on our own.
No. It's man's attempt to get things done without relying on fantasies.
Phat writes: How is that working for us?
Pretty well.
Phat writes: Besides....God wants Communion with humanity.
Here's a hint for Him: If you want to commune with me, don't threaten to fry me.
Phat writes: He is not OK with us simply being indifferent due to "lack of evidence".
That's just a convenient lie. God wants what you want Him to want.
Phat writes: And by the way, who told tou that unbelief is a default option?
You know it is. You don't believe in Zeus. Why not? Because unbelief is the default option. You don't believe in Quetzalcoatl. Why not? Because unbelief is the default option. You don't believe in Rael. Why not? Because unbelief is the default option. You don't believe in Thor. Why not? Because unbelief is the default option. You don't believe in Brahman. Why not? Because unbelief is the default option. Why do you pretend that belief is a wonderful thing when you have almost as much unbelief as I do?
quoting romans, Phat writes: as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside;
No one seeks for God. Not seeking God is the default.
Phat writes: You and jar both mention Genesis 2. That view is very much a minority viewpoint.
Fallacy of appeal to popularity. The truth doesn't have to be popular.
Phat writes: Yet you say it every darn time we interact.
If you had anything to back up your popular opinion, we could finish with it once and for all. But as long as you continue to repeat the lie, I will continue to expose it as a lie.
"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 703 by Phat, posted 05-27-2022 1:24 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 719 by candle2, posted 05-30-2022 9:37 AM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 721 of 794 (894822)
05-30-2022 11:56 AM
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Reply to: Message 712 by Phat
05-29-2022 1:36 PM
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Re: Maybe You Want To Share The Wealth
Phat writes: Maybe you wouldn't mind at all if currency became digital...
Mind? I wouldn't even notice. My pension is deposited automatically. My rent is withdrawn automatically. I pay for groceries and whatever else I need with Interac. The only thing I use cash for is laundry and panhandlers.
Phat writes: ... and everyone (rich and poor) was forced to pay their fair share for the common good.
You're the only one who seems to be obsessed with being "forced" to pay. You're already forced to pay taxes, aren't you?
Phat writes: Nobody could hoard anything then.
They could still hoard the things with real value, like food.
"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 712 by Phat, posted 05-29-2022 1:36 PM | | Phat has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 722 by DrJones*, posted 05-30-2022 12:04 PM | | ringo has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 723 of 794 (894824)
05-30-2022 12:31 PM
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Reply to: Message 719 by candle2
05-30-2022 9:37 AM
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Re: JarThink
candle2 writes: Ringo, you call believing in God a fantasy. Yet, God commands those who truly seek Him to prove everything.
Well, Paul commanded the Thessalonians to prove everything. But remember, the commands of a fantasy are also fantasy.
candle2 writes: Blind faith is worthless.
As James told the twelve tribes.
candle2 writes: The Bible contains many prophecies; some have already been fulfilled, others will soon be fulfilled.
If they have not been fulfilled, you can not count them as being fulfilled.
candle2 writes: We also know that the EU will slim down to just 10 nations (married in a sense to a powerful universal church).
You don't "know" any such thing. A few decades ago, Hal Lindsey popularized some nonsense about the "beast" of Revelation 13 being the EU. That prediction failed - and now you are predicting that it will unfail. A little over two centuries ago, prophecyy nuts "knew" that Napoleon was the AntiChrist. In the 1930s-40s, they "knew" that Hitler was the AntiChrist. Then they "knew" that Stalin was the AntiChrist. Then the Soviet Union split the offices of General Secretary of the Communist Party and Premier between Brezhnev and Kosigin and spoiled any further predictions of a single Soviet AntiChrist. The predictions have been consistently wrong. They're nothing but an attempt to twist the Bible into confirming your wishful thinking about the modern world.
"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 719 by candle2, posted 05-30-2022 9:37 AM | | candle2 has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 733 of 794 (894946)
06-03-2022 12:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 730 by Dredge
05-31-2022 9:30 AM
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Re: Climate Change Triggers The End Times
Dredge writes: Israel must be existence as a nation before the Second Coming can occur.
Not according to Jesus:
quote
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 730 by Dredge, posted 05-31-2022 9:30 AM | | Dredge has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 734 by AZPaul3, posted 06-03-2022 1:24 PM | | ringo has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 735 by nwr, posted 06-03-2022 1:56 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 737 of 794 (894968)
06-03-2022 9:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 735 by nwr
06-03-2022 1:56 PM
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Re: Climate Change Triggers The End Times
nwr writes: It seems to me that either the second coming already happened and nobody noticed, or it will never happen.
Or... Anything that remotely resembles the End Times will be seen as a fulfilment by those who want to see it.
"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 735 by nwr, posted 06-03-2022 1:56 PM | | nwr has seen this message but not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 749 of 794 (895036)
06-06-2022 12:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 744 by Phat
06-06-2022 3:35 AM
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Re: Climate Change Triggers The End Times
Phat writes: I will publically state what I believe is 85% certain to happen in at least some measure.
Are you sure that's vague enough?
Phat writes: ... Fiat currency....
So you don't think Fiat currency will ever become Ferrari currency again?
"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 744 by Phat, posted 06-06-2022 3:35 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 750 of 794 (895037)
06-06-2022 12:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 745 by Phat
06-06-2022 3:49 AM
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Re: Climate Change Triggers The End Times
Phat writes: If the hippie shows up, He may just fold His arms and remark that since few if any progressives even believed that He existed, they are required to fix it themselves.
We have ALWAYS been required to fix it ourselves.
"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 745 by Phat, posted 06-06-2022 3:49 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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