I Know That God Does Not Exist

The Jesus you try to market is just another made up character.You have never even been able to explain what "Jesus (eternally alive)..." even means.

If you have evidence, why wouldn't you show it?You said that you "markedly disagree" that "God has never evidentially shown up". If you have evidence that He has shown up, show us. I require evidence for EVERYTHING that is supposed to exist - Bigfeet, leprechauns, extraterrestrials, etc. That isn't "cavalier"; it's scientific. It's been clear for years that YOUR argument is going nowhere. Your refusal to do what Jesus instructed is just evidence that your "belief" is hollow. But I'd be unimpressed with your belief even if you did give everything up. Whether your personal belief is real or pretend, it's still only belief. First, your claim is false. Catholic monks and nuns often take a vow of poverty. And Hutterites are a Protestant sect, similar in doctrine to Mennonites and other Baptists, who hold their property in common.But rarity is irrelevant. When the young ruler asked, "What must I do to be saved?", Jesus didn't say, "If everybody sells what they have and gives to the poor, you will be saved." Salvation is an individual thing. You don't get into heaven because of what other people do. It's a deal-breaker because you don't want to do it. Stop it! I am NOT the one who wants you on the hook. JESUS wants you on the hook!And I don't believe the hook exists, so I couldn't possibly be on it. It's ONLY for believers. Get that through your head! I never said humanism would achieve world peace. Of course, it would be a more peaceful world if everybody was less religious and more human. And conveniently, money exists. That happens pretty often. Why doesn't your God fix it? You quoted me answering that question: Because there are different ways of achieving the same goals. The reason for NATO was to prevent the spread of Communism. And NATO continues to exist to counter Russia - because Russians are Russians, whether they're Tsarists or Communists or gangsters.There would be no reason for NATO to be global, with nobody to counter. A bit like trying to reason with you. Like how the Catholics and Protestants are in one accord? Like how they never spent thirty years slaughtering each other over control of Europe? But you're against globalism. See? There you go, insisting on your fair cut. You're not interested in God "blessing the Planet". Secular humanism does get things done, often in spite of the opposition by you Christians. For example, in the civilized world, medical care is provided by secular humanism. Health is a common cause, isn't it?

In other words, as you yourself have said, if I believe that Jesus exists and is alive in Spirit and Corporeal Body (In Heaven) today, why don't I do everything He said? Now I finally get it. (Even though you've told me your belief over and over and over. You argue that the evidence says so. You argue that God if God exists is unlike anything anyone has "marketed". According to ringo, Jesus likely never existed.You, on the other hand, believe that Jesus existed and that God raised Him from the dead, but to you, it is irrelevant as a power unto itself. (Himself, in my eyes)
(jar) Christianity is about what we do.Ringo: Message 204 also Message 374.

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I'm part of that "crowd". I don't believe that Jesus, the human, existed - because there is no solid evidence that he existed. I think the stories about him are most likely based on an amalgamation of preachers who wandered Palestine in the 1st century - like Sinclair Lewis' Elmer Gantry was based on real-life evangelists.

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And yet... Thinking now about our decades-long discussions, I did some research. I hear that Lewis caused quite a furor back in the 1920's! I also am beginning to realize that I will never convince anyone here at EvC that God (through Jesus Christ) exists apart from the character in the book even if I DID give everything up. Which takes away any guilt which I felt. You guys may not even believe once the economy implodes and in the grand tradition of Gantry, even more, loons come to the public fore. I suppose that the character in the book will need to come alive for you. Secular humanism sure won't save this planet!

I'm curious Phat, if you were hurt in a serious accident or suffered a serious medical problem, would you tell the ambulance driver to take you to the nearest hospital for emergency medical treatment or to the nearest church for emergency prayer treatment (and why that choice)?

I would most definitely pick the hospital if I was conscious enough to tell them. They go there by default anyway...I seriously doubt any ambulance could legally take a victim to a church! Besides I can always inform them later that I need prayers...once I'm stable. Ringo claims that my faith is hollow because I'm wary of following Jesus to the letter of what He said in the book. I do believe that Jesus is present in Spirit and that He would agree with me choosing the hospital. Just sayin...

I might still have doubts about Christian theology. However, if you and many others were to actually live as Jesus taught, I would be mightily impressed.

That's one big problem.wwjd doesn't seem to be a question they ask themselves.

Do you really agree with ringos hypothetical in that the global body of Christians should give it all up? And by that I mean materialistically.It's a daunting concept to give up one's retirement, for example.

You still fall back on spouting totally nonsensical platitudes. Again, what does any of that even mean? No Phat, the character Jesus in the stories says it is all about what you do. The various God characters in the story all say it is about what you do.Mat 25.Who built the Ark?Who was told to grow the crops, harvest the crops, build the granaries and distribute the food to the needy. And more meaningless platitudes. Stop posting stupid shit Phat.No one but humans can save humans.The planet does not need saving, it will get along just fine without humans.There is no current voice or even any attempt at saving humanity other than secular humanism.

It's not Ringo's hypothesis is it? It's Jesus's teaching. It's what he asks of his followers.You know what he says, it's in your book, but you can't do it so you pretend to yourself that it wasn't what he said.
​ It's impossible to imagine in today's society. That's why you pretend Christians try to ignore it. But it's what Jesus asks of you.His way was supposed to be hard wasn't it? How can you believe what you believe but ignore this because it's hard?

If Christians had been working together to make the world a better place for poor people, then maybe they would not actually need that retirement nest egg.

Never mind trying to put "other words" in my mouth. Just respond to the words I say. Then why don't you answer the question? If you really believe in Jesus, and you think He's of any earthly use, why don't you do what He told you to do? Really think about it and really answer. It's about time. Doing what Jesus told you to do might convince some people that you actually do believe what you pretend to believe. But it wouldn't convince anybody that what you believe is true.

Oh, I know this one! Because no matter how hard he tries to fool himself, he knows it's all just imaginary BS. He's like that last kid in the third grade to finally realize Santa isn't real.
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Every once in a while a cult holds their beliefs so deeply that they commit mass suicide, for example Heaven's Gate and Jonestown. They gave their last full measure of devotion. This tells most people that such demonstrations don't mean anything since it's not possible that all mass suicide cults are right, their beliefs not being mutually consistent.--Percy

Are the cults of Christianity mutually consistent in their interpretations of Jesus’s instructions to the young prince? I wouldn’t think so.Like maybe, that fable about the prince was not about giving up his gold but was about giving up any spiritual possessions held in his life. To give up all other gods, spirits and icons and follow instead in HIS spiritual footsteps. Prosperity theology in its infancy. I should start a church.So maybe Phat has an out. Since all of Christianity is a cafeteria of various, competing and contradictory creeds he can maybe adopt that portion of one of the less strict interpretations and keep his gold.Of course it’s all apocryphal but the logical reasoning may be sound enough for Phat to keep both his possessions and his claim to be a True Christian^{TM ©}.{aside}
I’m looking out for you, Phat.