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Author Topic:   Is the “Fine-Tuned Universe” an Illusion?
dwise1
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Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


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Message 9 of 61 (891745)
02-10-2022 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by AZPaul3
02-09-2022 6:18 PM


Re: Fine Tuned
I recall it being a Douglas Adams quote that puts the entire "fine tuning" argument into proper perspective; from The Puddle's Pothole | Raving Atheists Wiki | Fandom: [quote]The Puddle's Pothole
The Puddle's Pothole is an illustration of the failings of the Fine-Tuning Argument. The counter-argument was told by Douglas Adams to Richard Dawkins, and reported by Dawkins at Adams's funeral on 17 September 2001. The anecdote describes a puddle of water that "wak[es] up one morning and think[s], 'This is an interesting world I find myself in – an interesting hole I find myself in – fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!'"
In the illustration, the puddle assumes that the pothole it resides in was designed specifically for it based on the fact that the dimensions of the pothole match exactly the dimensions of the puddle. This is meant to highlight the flaws in the concept that the universe (specifically the Earth) was specifically designed for our kind of life (human life in particular) based on the fact that the conditions of the universe match exactly the conditions necessary for our kind of life.
Adams's analogy demonstrates that the Fine-Tuning Argument is the result of an interverted conception of the universe. In the same way that, in actuality, it is the molecules of water in the puddle that conform to the dimensions of the pothole, it is our kind of life that conforms to the parameters of the universe.[/quote]
IOW, it is not the universe that is fine-tuned, but rather life that is fine-tuned (mainly through evolution once life has gotten started through other natural processes) to fit in the universe. If the universe had been even slightly different enough to preclude life as we know it but rather would allow some other form of life, then that's the form of life that one would find in that universe.

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 11 of 61 (891762)
02-10-2022 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Taq
02-10-2022 12:19 PM


Re: Fine Tuned
Though the entire fine-tuning argument is still moot. If the universe had not formed with those fundamental constants and starting conditions that allowed for stars, galaxies, planets, and complex chemistry to exist, then nobody would be posing any questions about it.
---------------------------------
My standard reaction to philosophizing: "Dammit, Jim! I'm an engineer, not a philosopher!"

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 Message 13 by Tanypteryx, posted 02-10-2022 8:40 PM dwise1 has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 14 of 61 (891779)
02-10-2022 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Tanypteryx
02-10-2022 8:40 PM


Re: Fine Tuned
Yeah, but then I am an engineer, so that's what I need to go with.
Either something works or it doesn't. If it doesn't work, then try to figure out how to get it to work.
That cannot be done by redefining words in order to change reality. That is how theologians, philosophers, and lawyers roll, but not engineers.

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