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Author Topic:   Belief Versus The Scientific Method
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 418 of 513 (890964)
01-12-2022 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 417 by Theodoric
01-12-2022 4:56 PM


Re: Forcing My Hand Towards Science
Thanks for sharing your beliefs.
Now, on the issue of medical science if objective evidence exists, then scientists on both sides of the vaccination issues disagree about that evidence. It has been a matter of opinion.
Let's look at science regarding vaccines (although one side claims the covid vaccines are not actually vaccines)
"The creation of a vaccine involves scientists and medical experts from around the world, and it usually requires 10 to 15 years of research before the vaccine is made available to the general public. The first step of this extensive process involves several years of laboratory research, in which scientists and researchers identify an antigen that can prevent a disease.
Once the test vaccine has been cleared for further investigation by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, at least three more phases of thorough clinical trials are conducted on human volunteers to test vaccine efficacy, to determine appropriate dosage, and to monitor for adverse side effects, etc. These trials usually take several more years to complete. The last phase involves a test group of up to tens of thousands of human volunteers. Unsure if this is a large enough test group? Consider this -– medicines in the United States also go through incredible scrutiny, but their test subject sample sizes are three times smaller than vaccine test subject groups.
But that's not the end of it: Once approved, the FDA continues to closely monitor the vaccine . It tests everything from batches of the vaccine to the production process and the facilities for safety. The FDA also conducts b Numerous agencies also work together on a global level to track, collect and analyze data, to make sure these vaccines are, and remain, safe for the general population"
The Science Behind Vaccine Research and Testing
It is no wonder then, that one side says what we see going on is not science.
Even in respected science journals we see things that are more belief and opinion than objective.
" The authors suggest that Earth’s 1°C temperature rise over the past two centuries could largely be explained by the distance between Earth and the sun changing over time as the sun orbits around our solar system’s barycentre, its centre of mass. The phenomenon would see temperatures rise a further 3°C by 2600, they say.
..“The claim that we will see warming in the coming centuries because the sun will move closer to the Earth as it moves around the solar system barycentre is very simply wrong,” adds Rice. He is urging the journal to withdraw the paper"
Journal criticised for study claiming sun is causing global warming | New Scientist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 417 by Theodoric, posted 01-12-2022 4:56 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 419 by DrJones*, posted 01-12-2022 8:43 PM drlove has replied
 Message 428 by Tangle, posted 01-13-2022 3:37 AM drlove has replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 420 of 513 (890968)
01-12-2022 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 419 by DrJones*
01-12-2022 8:43 PM


Re: Forcing My Hand Towards Science
The part about several years comes to mind

This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by DrJones*, posted 01-12-2022 8:43 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 422 by DrJones*, posted 01-12-2022 9:08 PM drlove has replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 421 of 513 (890969)
01-12-2022 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 415 by nwr
01-11-2022 9:05 PM


Re: You love making up quotes
Guess we can add them to the list of places that cannot be relied on for credible...anything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by nwr, posted 01-11-2022 9:05 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 423 of 513 (890972)
01-12-2022 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 422 by DrJones*
01-12-2022 9:08 PM


making it up as they go along
So now you believe that you can dismiss usual test times. Then we consider that science?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 422 by DrJones*, posted 01-12-2022 9:08 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 424 by DrJones*, posted 01-12-2022 11:26 PM drlove has replied
 Message 427 by Theodoric, posted 01-13-2022 12:14 AM drlove has replied
 Message 429 by ringo, posted 01-13-2022 11:43 AM drlove has not replied
 Message 431 by AZPaul3, posted 01-13-2022 12:52 PM drlove has replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 434 of 513 (891021)
01-13-2022 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 424 by DrJones*
01-12-2022 11:26 PM


Re: making it up as they go along
Give us the scientific method that says experiment on kids and others with any sort of shortcuts you want to take?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 424 by DrJones*, posted 01-12-2022 11:26 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 440 by DrJones*, posted 01-13-2022 7:45 PM drlove has replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 435 of 513 (891022)
01-13-2022 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 427 by Theodoric
01-13-2022 12:14 AM


Re: making it up as they go along
The drug companies testing them have been in court cases for lying. Is that science? I think we need more than the word of known killers and liars to call something science?
Now if the actions taken were based on good science would they not work?
"TUCSON, Ariz., March 16, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- The U.S. response to the COVID-19 pandemic has failed at every level, resulting in hundreds of thousands of needless deaths, according to an article in the spring issue of the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons. "
U.S. Pandemic Response Disastrous, according to the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons

This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by Theodoric, posted 01-13-2022 12:14 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 436 of 513 (891023)
01-13-2022 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 431 by AZPaul3
01-13-2022 12:52 PM


Re: making it up as they go along
Do we know that it will go one for decades? The latest variant apparently is far less severe.
In fact it is being recommended that travel restrictions against the unvaccinated be removed!
"The World Health Organisation (WHO) on Wednesday said vaccination status should not be used to disqualify people from travelling internationally and governments should only use vaccine mandates as a “last resort”.
COVID vaccines: WHO says vaccine mandates should be last resort amid Djokovic row

This message is a reply to:
 Message 431 by AZPaul3, posted 01-13-2022 12:52 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 441 by AZPaul3, posted 01-13-2022 10:19 PM drlove has replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 437 of 513 (891024)
01-13-2022 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 428 by Tangle
01-13-2022 3:37 AM


Re: Forcing My Hand Towards Science
Trust the drug companies for honest results? That is hard to do when we are dealing with known liars. Didn't the lead Dr in the US get accused of lying under oath?
So why would anyone believe the so called reasons they give for having to change their story?
New docs show Dr. Fauci has been keeping us from the truth on COVID
New docs show Dr. Fauci has been keeping us from the truth on COVID
They say whatever seems convenient for that side of their mouth that day apparently.
Trump Slammed the W.H.O. Over Coronavirus. He’s Not Alone. (Published 2020)
Opinion | World Health Coronavirus Disinformation
Italy prosecutors: WHO exec lied about spiked virus report
An infamous WHO tweet saying there was 'no clear evidence' COVID-19 could spread between humans was posted for 'balance' to reflect findings from China
Then there is the matter of WHO making false statements to achieve a goal of theirs. example:
The WHO’s decision to adopt the generic identifier ‘ swine flu’ was arguably a noble one, intended to avoid damage to the Mexican economy. It did, however, result in a raft of unintended consequences that rapidly revealed the decision was a mistake. Indeed, within weeks of the descriptor being applied, approximately 20 per cent of the WHO’s member states implemented a series of measures that exceeded, and thereby contravened, international norms (Davies et al. 2015). In late April 2009, for example, the Egyptian government ordered the mass culling of all pigs throughout the country (estimated to be between 250,000 and 400,000 animals) as a ‘preventative measure’, despite the fact that no human cases of H1N1 had been recorded in Egypt nor any reported outbreaks of H1N1 had occurred in pigs worldwide (Katz and Fischer 2010). Within days, the Iraqi government followed Egypt’s lead and ordered the culling of three boars in a Baghdad zoo (Karadesh 2009). Added to this, some 20 other countries including Russia, the Philippines, Indonesia, Bahrain and China imposed trade import bans on all live pigs, pork and pork products, citing concerns over the risk that H1N1 may be introduced into their respective human populations (Lynn 2009; WTO 2009; Katz and Fischer 2010)."
What Went Wrong? The World Health Organization from Swine Flu to Ebola
The WHO is involved with killing babies. So basically they are mass murderers. Thinking they might also lie is no great surprise! I notice it was Fauci who announced the US was back in the gung ho baby slaughter business.
Fauci: US to repeal anti-abortion rule on aid and join Covax vaccine scheme | Biden administration | The Guardian
Is it any wonder that those lying murderers are not believed by many people?
Edited by drlove, : No reason given.

Edited by drlove, : No reason given.

Edited by drlove, : No reason given.

Edited by drlove, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 428 by Tangle, posted 01-13-2022 3:37 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 438 by Tangle, posted 01-13-2022 5:19 PM drlove has replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 439 of 513 (891030)
01-13-2022 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 438 by Tangle
01-13-2022 5:19 PM


Foxes guarding henhouse
Can you show that all death and adverse effects of vaccines are properly attributed and reported? I do not think you can. If someone dies from a heart attack or has some neurological condition is this all deemed a result of the vaccines? No.
Who tests the vaccine? Ha
" Pfizer and BioNTech leveraged decades of scientific expertise to design and execute a rigorous Phase 3 clinical trial program to make the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine available as quickly and safely as possible. Today, we are continuing to evaluate data from this landmark trial"
Coronavirus COVID-19 Vaccine Update: Latest Developments | Pfizer
So here are the people we are supposed to trust!
"Pfizer has faced thousands of lawsuits filed for medical injuries caused by some of its most popular drugs. It has also set a record for the largest fine paid for a health care fraud lawsuit filed by the U.S. Department of Justice. Pfizer paid $2.3 billion in fines, penalties, and settlement for illegal marketing claims."
Pfizer - History of Pfizer, Products & Legal Claims
Not trusting them is 'not science'?
Edited by drlove, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 438 by Tangle, posted 01-13-2022 5:19 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 444 by Tangle, posted 01-14-2022 2:30 AM drlove has replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 442 of 513 (891035)
01-14-2022 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 440 by DrJones*
01-13-2022 7:45 PM


Re: making it up as they go along
The ten year thing? Also, the thing where a drug company with thousands of legal cases against them is in charge of the testing? That is your idea of science?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 440 by DrJones*, posted 01-13-2022 7:45 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 448 by DrJones*, posted 01-14-2022 8:01 PM drlove has replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 443 of 513 (891036)
01-14-2022 1:28 AM
Reply to: Message 441 by AZPaul3
01-13-2022 10:19 PM


No more than Hitler had his house in order.
Below are a few of the doctors saying that lockdowns are the wrong way to go.
"
Dr. Alexander Walker, principal at World Health Information Science Consultants, former Chair of Epidemiology, Harvard TH Chan School of Public Health, USA
Dr. Andrius Kavaliunas, epidemiologist and assistant professor at Karolinska Institute, Sweden
Dr. Angus Dalgleish, oncologist, infectious disease expert and professor, St. George’s Hospital Medical School, University of London, England
Dr. Anthony J Brookes, professor of genetics, University of Leicester, England
Dr. Annie Janvier, professor of pediatrics and clinical ethics, Université de Montréal and Sainte-Justine University Medical Centre, Canada
Dr. Ariel Munitz, professor of clinical microbiology and immunology, Tel Aviv University, Israel
Dr. Boris Kotchoubey, Institute for Medical Psychology, University of Tübingen, Germany
Dr. Cody Meissner, professor of pediatrics, expert on vaccine development, efficacy, and safety. Tufts University School of Medicine, USA
Dr. David Katz, physician and president, True Health Initiative, and founder of the Yale University Prevention Research Center, USA
Dr. David Livermore, microbiologist, infectious disease epidemiologist and professor, University of East Anglia, England
Dr. Eitan Friedman, professor of medicine, Tel-Aviv University, Israel
Dr. Ellen Townsend, professor of psychology, head of the Self-Harm Research Group, University of Nottingham, England
Dr. Eyal Shahar, physician, epidemiologist and professor (emeritus) of public health, University of Arizona, USA
Dr. Florian Limbourg, physician and hypertension researcher, professor at Hannover Medical School, Germany
Dr. Gabriela Gomes, mathematician studying infectious disease epidemiology, professor, University of Strathclyde, Scotland
Dr. Gerhard Krönke, physician and professor of translational immunology, University of Erlangen-Nuremberg, Germany
Dr. Gesine Weckmann, professor of health education and prevention, Europäische Fachhochschule, Rostock, Germany
Dr. Günter Kampf, associate professor, Institute for Hygiene and Environmental Medicine, Greifswald University, Germany
Dr. Helen Colhoun, professor of medical informatics and epidemiology, and public health physician, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
Dr. Jonas Ludvigsson, pediatrician, epidemiologist and professor at Karolinska Institute and senior physician at Örebro University Hospital, Sweden
Dr. Karol Sikora, physician, oncologist, and professor of medicine at the University of Buckingham, England
Dr. Laura Lazzeroni, professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences and of biomedical data science, Stanford University Medical School, USA
Dr. Lisa White, professor of modelling and epidemiology, Oxford University, England
Dr. Mario Recker, malaria researcher and associate professor, University of Exeter, England
Dr. Matthew Ratcliffe, professor of philosophy, specializing in philosophy of mental health, University of York, England
Dr. Matthew Strauss, critical care physician and assistant professor of medicine, Queen’s University, Canada
Dr. Michael Jackson, research fellow, School of Biological Sciences, University of Canterbury, New Zealand
Dr. Michael Levitt, biophysicist and professor of structural biology, Stanford University, USA.
Recipient of the 2013 Nobel Prize in Chemistry.
Dr. Mike Hulme, professor of human geography, University of Cambridge, England
Dr. Motti Gerlic, professor of clinical microbiology and immunology, Tel Aviv University, Israel
Dr. Partha P. Majumder, professor and founder of the National Institute of Biomedical Genomics, Kalyani, India
Dr. Paul McKeigue, physician, disease modeler and professor of epidemiology and public health, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
Dr. Rajiv Bhatia, physician, epidemiologist and public policy expert at the Veterans Administration, USA
Dr. Rodney Sturdivant, infectious disease scientist and associate professor of biostatistics, Baylor University, USA
Dr. Simon Thornley, epidemiologist and biostatistician, University of Auckland, New Zealand
Dr. Simon Wood, biostatistician and professor, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
Dr. Stephen Bremner,professor of medical statistics, University of Sussex, England
Dr. Sylvia Fogel, autism provider and psychiatrist at Massachusetts General Hospital and instructor at Harvard Medical School, USA
Tom Nicholson, Associate in Research, Duke Center for International Development, Sanford School of Public Policy, Duke University, USA
Dr. Udi Qimron, professor of clinical microbiology and immunology, Tel Aviv University, Israel
Dr. Ulrike Kämmerer, professor and expert in virology, immunology and cell biology, University of Würzburg, Germany
Dr. Uri Gavish, biomedical consultant, Israel
Dr. Yaz Gulnur Muradoglu, professor of finance, director of the Behavioural Finance Working Group, Queen Mary University of London, England"
Great Barrington Declaration
They join 916,000 others in that opinion, and that is just one site! Let's not pretend science says we need lockdowns.
Edited by drlove, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 441 by AZPaul3, posted 01-13-2022 10:19 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 445 by Tangle, posted 01-14-2022 4:22 AM drlove has not replied
 Message 446 by AZPaul3, posted 01-14-2022 6:51 AM drlove has not replied
 Message 447 by Theodoric, posted 01-14-2022 10:50 AM drlove has replied
 Message 455 by Percy, posted 01-15-2022 2:08 PM drlove has replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 449 of 513 (891062)
01-14-2022 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 444 by Tangle
01-14-2022 2:30 AM


Re: Foxes guarding henhouse
Can you show how the blind aspect of the test was done? To have a group monitored that was unvaccinated as compared to a vaccinated group, can you guarantee all that group never got vaccinated? If they or some of them did, then well, you know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 444 by Tangle, posted 01-14-2022 2:30 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 453 by Tangle, posted 01-15-2022 4:56 AM drlove has replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 450 of 513 (891063)
01-14-2022 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 448 by DrJones*
01-14-2022 8:01 PM


Re: making it up as they go along
That is no excuse for allowing convicted frauds to do the testing for drugs they will make untold billions on! Then we see some results are trying to be hidden for many many decades!!! They also demanded protection against death and injury responsibility! This is science?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 448 by DrJones*, posted 01-14-2022 8:01 PM DrJones* has not replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 451 of 513 (891064)
01-14-2022 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 447 by Theodoric
01-14-2022 10:50 AM


So you think their big crime is not swallowing the climate change agenda whole? Therefore we cannot believe the doctors, virologists, medical professionals and etc who state their true opinions? Not sure what sort of nazi nightmare you are confusing with science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 447 by Theodoric, posted 01-14-2022 10:50 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 452 by Theodoric, posted 01-14-2022 11:49 PM drlove has replied

  
drlove
Member (Idle past 791 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 01-02-2022


Message 456 of 513 (891072)
01-15-2022 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 452 by Theodoric
01-14-2022 11:49 PM


The lockdowns and covid related agenda has resulted is a loss of freedom and employment and travel. Much of this was based on lying about science and other things. If you think that is 'godwin' that is fine. That sounds like blather to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 452 by Theodoric, posted 01-14-2022 11:49 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
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