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Author Topic:   How the Bible Actually Works
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 113 of 137 (890082)
12-24-2021 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by jar
12-23-2021 3:41 PM


Re: About characters in books....
Why don't you just be honest and call yourself an atheist? You have failed to declare what exactly it is (in the way of a Deity) that you believe in. God is more than just a symbol, but focusing on Him is preferable to focusing on a molten core, a distant galaxy, or a hope limited to other humans.
Think about it.
  • You belong to a club that has a history of ritualism and ceremony.
    I note that you never mention the day-by-day relevance of this ritual apart from a shared experience with others. I know that I, for one, would consider the BCP as relevant ONLY if I believed that GOD not only existed but in some way heard our prayers and shared His time with our human experience. An absentee God is no better for mental health than an absentee human father.
    Granted religion has historically been destructive, though one could argue that it got te United States through two World Wars.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
    H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 106 by jar, posted 12-23-2021 3:41 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 114 by jar, posted 12-24-2021 9:10 AM Phat has replied
     Message 118 by ringo, posted 12-24-2021 11:07 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 115 of 137 (890085)
    12-24-2021 10:53 AM
    Reply to: Message 114 by jar
    12-24-2021 9:10 AM


    ian? an? Re: About characters in books....
    jar writes:
    It is a conclusion Phat rather than a presumption. Can you even understand the difference between those two words and concepts?
    Sure.
    Websters,Presumption writes:
    : an attitude or belief dictated by probability : assumption
    b : the ground, reason, or evidence lending probability to a belief
    3 : a legal inference as to the existence or truth of a fact not certainly known that is drawn from the known or proved existence of some other fact
    Thinking you are going to win at poker is a presumption. (since you lost three other times in a row)
    Websters,Conclusion writes:
    : a final decision or judgment : an opinion or decision that is formed after a period of thought or research.
    : the last part of something : end
    : a reasoned judgment : inference The obvious conclusion is that she was negligent.
    b : the necessary consequence of two or more propositions taken as premises especially : the inferred proposition of a syllogism
    So how is it obvious that GOD is unknowable? How is it obvious (and why only to you, unique among Christians) that Jesus life was more important than His death? Why do you conclude that there is no way to know if you hear Jesus in your conscience or that Jesus has a still small voice prompting you to better behavior when you pray? And would your still small voice of conscience stop you from saying things to others such as calling them stupid and repeatedly asking them if they ever read the Bible?
    jar writes:
    So, I ask you yet again; "How is preaching a gospel that says folk should feed the hungry, comfort the sorrowful, clothe the naked, protect the weak, shelter the homeless, heal the sick the most dangerous thing we face today or the most dangerous thing on this board?"
    It's not that stuff. Its when you say to "throw God away". It's when you fail to emphasize Jesus as God or that a relationship with Jesus is not only possible but useful...like the BCP. I have heard His still small voice. Perhaps it is just my conscience, though I'm far too selfish, greedy, and fearful of losing everything I have, life included, to attribute the still small voice to myself. You always ask how anyone would *know* that the voice was that of God. For one thing, the voice will never tell you to hate. The voice will never tell you to hold onto money...it always prompts you to give. (although it NEVER tells you to gamble )
    Galatians 5 reminds us that the desires of the Spirit are ALWAYS contrary to the desires of the flesh.
    jar writes:
    Remember that Germany and Italy and Japan and Poland and Austria and the US and England were ALL religious. And the majority were also Christian.
    Is the majority of the Republican Party Christian? Do they resemble the Christians in the US during both wars? Did German Christians prevent the rise of Hitler? (and don't lie to us and tell us Hitler was Christian. You will know them by their fruits. ) Did Japanese religion even count towards anything positive? (Although Hirohito *did* help end the war for them) Douglas MacArthur was a "bigger" god than Hirohito!
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
    H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 114 by jar, posted 12-24-2021 9:10 AM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 119 by jar, posted 12-24-2021 11:11 AM Phat has not replied
     Message 120 by ringo, posted 12-24-2021 11:20 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 121 by dwise1, posted 12-24-2021 9:49 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 126 of 137 (890130)
    12-27-2021 3:34 AM
    Reply to: Message 125 by AZPaul3
    12-25-2021 8:21 PM


    Re: How the Bible works in the US today?
    You will never have the majority that you need. It is as it should be.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
    H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 125 by AZPaul3, posted 12-25-2021 8:21 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 130 by ringo, posted 12-28-2021 11:33 AM Phat has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 127 of 137 (890131)
    12-27-2021 3:41 AM
    Reply to: Message 121 by dwise1
    12-24-2021 9:49 PM


    Re: ian? an? Re: About characters in books....
    The supernatural is outside of the natural, right? We cannot sense the supernatural let alone observe, study, detect, nor even determine any characteristics of the supernatural including its very existence, right? The gods are all supernatural, right?
    According to tradition Jesus was natural.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
    H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 121 by dwise1, posted 12-24-2021 9:49 PM dwise1 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 128 by jar, posted 12-27-2021 6:35 AM Phat has not replied
     Message 129 by dwise1, posted 12-27-2021 11:46 AM Phat has not replied
     Message 131 by ringo, posted 12-28-2021 11:36 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 132 of 137 (890200)
    12-29-2021 12:18 PM
    Reply to: Message 96 by jar
    12-22-2021 11:48 AM


    Re: About characters in books....
    jar writes:
    What makes the idea of Jesus ever existing more plausible than Ganesha or Raven or Coyote or Zues or Odin or ... ?
    Has Ganesha ever touched you? No?
    Raven?
    Again no.
    Coyote? Zeus? Apart from literary entertainment, I thought so.
    You say you are Christian. Has Jesus ever become real to you in any way? What's that you say? Your Socratic humanist teachers taught you that there was no way to tell? And that the Evangelicals were ignorant, greedy, and immoral??
    Did anyone tell you that liberals are greedy for power and influence...for the supposed good of society? That you claim to know that no gods actually exist or that ALL of them do? Who is truly ignorant?

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
    H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 96 by jar, posted 12-22-2021 11:48 AM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 133 by jar, posted 12-29-2021 12:27 PM Phat has not replied
     Message 134 by nwr, posted 12-29-2021 12:44 PM Phat has not replied
     Message 135 by ringo, posted 12-30-2021 11:44 AM Phat has not replied

      
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