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Author Topic:   RobinRohan has died
Brian
Member (Idle past 5218 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 121 of 133 (889906)
10-16-2006 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by mike the wiz
10-16-2006 9:32 AM


Re: Considerations To Ponder
Is that so wrong?

It's not wrong mate, it's probably what most people would wish that reality was like. However, I believe that like most things we wish for, it isn't true.

I agree with schraff, pondering on what's going to happen to you when you die is an atrocious waste of time.

Live for the moment, grab life by the balls because you are a long time dead.

Brian.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by mike the wiz, posted 10-16-2006 9:32 AM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by mike the wiz, posted 10-17-2006 1:23 PM Brian has replied

mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 253 days)
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 122 of 133 (889907)
10-17-2006 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by nator
10-16-2006 5:58 PM


Re: Considerations To Ponder
I don't feel especially bad for him. He doesn't exist anymore.

I know. In a way, it's like before birth. Nobody felt sorry for me before birth> "me" is only one page in the book called the fourth dimension.

RR himself would say that none of that means anything at all.

I know...he's probably boring God to death right now as we type.

I just like things, and people. I never throw things away because of their worth. Each thing/person is valuable to me in it's own unique way. Has it's own character.

There is no RR to feel sorry for, but there was an RR, which I would like to see continue, even if he was just a burnt out old two stroke.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by nator, posted 10-16-2006 5:58 PM nator has not replied

mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 253 days)
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 123 of 133 (889908)
10-17-2006 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Brian
10-16-2006 6:10 PM


Re: Considerations To Ponder
All the depressing evidence seems to agree with your post.

I suppose all any of us can do is enjoy the time given, like you said. Laughing a lot, etc..


This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Brian, posted 10-16-2006 6:10 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Brian, posted 10-17-2006 1:52 PM mike the wiz has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 5218 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 124 of 133 (889909)
10-17-2006 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by mike the wiz
10-17-2006 1:23 PM


Re: Considerations To Ponder
I suppose all any of us can do is enjoy the time given, like you said. Laughing a lot, etc..

Yes, you really have to try and make the most of your time here, it is all that we are certain of.

But, when I say grab life by the balls I don't mean the same thing for everyone. For some it may be trying out skydiving or bungee jumping, for others it may be discovering that The Gospel of Mark has two different endings, for others it could be getting out of a suffocating relationship.

In a way I do feel sorry for RR because 58 years on this earth is no time at all really, it is young by today's standards. So I feel sorry that he didn't have what I consider a 'good innings', so he may have been a little bit cheated there.

My mum was only 59 when she died, my brother was 49 and I feel the same way about them. Life is so fragile, you never know when it will end, that's why we Scots have an old tradition that you never go to sleep on an argument, if there's been an argument with a loved one you always talk it out before you go to sleep.

It is a nice idea that my mum, dad and brother could be sitting chatting with RR and many others I have known, but I just cannot see that being true no matter how much we want it to be. The thought of meeting my mum, Dad and brother again for a big cuddle is a very attractive one, but I know it isn't going to happen.

We just have to accept it and make the most of what we have.

Brian.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by mike the wiz, posted 10-17-2006 1:23 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by mike the wiz, posted 10-17-2006 4:58 PM Brian has not replied

mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 253 days)
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 125 of 133 (889910)
10-17-2006 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Brian
10-17-2006 1:52 PM


Re: Considerations To Ponder
It is a nice idea that my mum, dad and brother could be sitting chatting with RR and many others I have known, but I just cannot see that being true no matter how much we want it to be.

I understand why you can't see that as true. I myself acknowledge that it is wishful thinking on my own part, to a big degree. I'm happy to be hopeful, and I accept I could easily be wrong.

I suppose it depends a lot on how plausible one thinks heaven/hell is. Hell, to me, as in - atheists burn, is totally incredulous, and cannot be true. My whole being tells me that such a God couldn't be the one who made the universe, if God exists. Heaven? If it's another earth, only peaceful, I can imagine it.

For me, it's amazing that the earth is here and we can sit and chat with eachother, in the first place. That's what makes me think it can possibly happen to us again in another reality, beyond death. Don't worry, I'm not trying to cause a debate, it's just my own opinion on that subject.

But, when I say grab life by the balls I don't mean the same thing for everyone. For some it may be trying out skydiving or bungee jumping, for others it may be discovering that The Gospel of Mark has two different endings,

I kind of feel sorry for the latter guy, but whatever floats his boat eh.

My mum was only 59 when she died, my brother was 49

That's bad. That is is young. I've got those things ahead of me..unless I go first.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Brian, posted 10-17-2006 1:52 PM Brian has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1703 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 126 of 133 (889911)
10-18-2006 3:43 PM


the last few posts
mike the wiz writes:
A person with his or her own unique personality. With a whole lifetime of projects and goals and achievements.

schraf writes:
Funny though, that RR himself would say that none of that means anything at all.

Just have to comment that this doesn't represent what Robin said very well. He acknowledged many times that personally, subjectively, such things matter to all of us. His point was only that it doesn't matter in any objective sense, doesn't matter to the universe, doesn't matter to evolution. Only if there is a God would the fate of human beings matter in an objective sense, and he didn't believe in God, therefore he said it didn't matter objectively what happened to any of us. But he always agreed that it matters to us personally and subjectively.

Contrary to what others are saying here, I believe it's extremely important to think about what happens after death -- as opposed to focusing simply on trying to have the best possible time in this life (as if that would have any value in the end whether you were conscious or not after death). Obviously if we don't just go out like a light, if we don't cease to exist, then it matters enormously what we encounter after death. People make such dogmatic statements about ceasing to exist after death as if it were a known fact, something that couldn't possibly be known so certainly. Since it can't be known so certainly, how can it be a waste of time trying to find out?

My mother was 61 when she died, my father 67, not very old, and my brother died at 46. Barring a last-minute conversion unwitnessed by anyone, they all died unsaved. This does not make me happy, to say the least, but it also doesn't make me stop believing that eternal life comes only through faith in Jesus Christ.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by mike the wiz, posted 10-18-2006 4:47 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 128 by nator, posted 10-18-2006 5:58 PM Faith has replied

mike the wiz
Member (Idle past 253 days)
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 127 of 133 (889912)
10-18-2006 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Faith
10-18-2006 3:43 PM


Re: the last few posts
People make such dogmatic statements about ceasing to exist after death

That's because a lot of people don't believe in the supernatural easily. As far as they can tell, it doesn't exist, because there is no evidence, and there is also evidence to the contrary.

They see death and suffering as evidence against a benevolent God. Reality is contrary to religious notions.

Atheist + Agnostic = no claims bonus.

We don't get a no claims bonus because we make the claim that the supernatural exists, because we only have the natural, and A+A don't claim anything beyond it.

It's tough cheese. Chew on it and swallow like I did.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Faith, posted 10-18-2006 3:43 PM Faith has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2428 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 128 of 133 (889913)
10-18-2006 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Faith
10-18-2006 3:43 PM


Re: the last few posts
quote:
Contrary to what others are saying here, I believe it's extremely important to think about what happens after death -- as opposed to focusing simply on trying to have the best possible time in this life (as if that would have any value in the end whether you were conscious or not after death).

We're not talking about the value of living life to the fullest after death.

The whole point of living life to the fullest is that we are living life to the fullest, right now.

quote:
People make such dogmatic statements about ceasing to exist after death as if it were a known fact, something that couldn't possibly be known so certainly.

You make equally dogmatic statements about the afterlife, and about a great many more things as if they are known facts, and none of those things can't possibly be known at all, let alone "certainly".

quote:
Since it can't be known so certainly, how can it be a waste of time trying to find out?

Because it is an unknowable thing, by definition.

Er


This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Faith, posted 10-18-2006 3:43 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Faith, posted 10-18-2006 6:16 PM nator has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1703 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 129 of 133 (889914)
10-18-2006 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by nator
10-18-2006 5:58 PM


Re: the last few posts
We're not talking about the value of living life to the fullest after death.

Of course not. You don't believe in it.

The whole point of living life to the fullest is that we are living life to the fullest, right now.

Not sure why you think that would be news.

People make such dogmatic statements about ceasing to exist after death as if it were a known fact, something that couldn't possibly be known so certainly.

You make equally dogmatic statements about the afterlife, and about a great many more things as if they are known facts, and none of those things can't possibly be known at all, let alone "certainly".

Yes, but I make it on the basis of objective external evidence, whether you appreciate that evidence or not, I don't make it on the basis of my mere subjective opinion about what seems to me the way things should happen, as some here seem to do, or the fact that we can't experience the afterlife now, which is no evidence at all.


Since it can't be known so certainly, how can it be a waste of time trying to find out?

Because it is an unknowable thing, by definition.

If God chose to reveal the truth about it, which he did, then it is not unknowable by definition at all.

Edited by Faith, : didn't finish the whole post

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by nator, posted 10-18-2006 5:58 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by nator, posted 10-18-2006 7:15 PM Faith has not replied

iano
Member (Idle past 2199 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 130 of 133 (889915)
10-18-2006 6:28 PM


A call to decorum
There is no obligation to get this particular thread go red nor hit 300 posts. Let it be what it has become - a place for people to express whatever it is they want to express about Robins dying.

It turns out too that it has become a place for his family members to gain entry into this aspect of Robins life should they chose to do so

A time for some decorum. Please...


nator
Member (Idle past 2428 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 131 of 133 (889916)
10-18-2006 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Faith
10-18-2006 6:16 PM


Re: the last few posts
quote:
If God chose to reveal the truth about it, which he did, then it is not unknowable by definition at all.

What God?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Faith, posted 10-18-2006 6:16 PM Faith has not replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 132 of 133 (889917)
10-18-2006 7:31 PM


RobinRohan Memoriam Closed
Iano is right. This thread became a place for us to honor Robin and I feel there has been ample time to do so.

The time has come to close the thread with these final words.

They are not dead who live in the hearts they leave behind.

Farewell Robin of Rohan


Admin
Director
Posts: 13108
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 133 of 133 (889919)
12-15-2021 2:27 PM


Thread Copied from Coffee House Forum
Thread copied here from the RobinRohan has died thread in the Coffee House forum.

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