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Author | Topic: Who's the bigger offender: Conservatives or Liberals? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
That's what I do.
You use wisdom with what little (or lot) of assets you have. Phat writes:
Are you familiar with the phrase "spare change"?
Feed them as you feed yourself but dont give them everything at once. Phat writes:
As I have said, I have no wealth. I am at the mercy of the Canadian government.
Do you really plan on giving up all you have and throw yourself at the mercy of the Canadian Government? Phat writes:
A better insurance policy is making sure that the Canadian government is taking care of everybpdy, not just me, me, me.
Is it not wise to invest in a financial insurance policy? Because that's essentially what Gold and Silver are. Phat writes:
There's no shame in being as poor as the ones I want to help. Teach a man to fish rather than giving all of your fish away and being as broke as the ones you were trying to help."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Phat writes: For every ounce he sells, he makes at least $9.00... How much would you actually pay Bernie for 100 ounces of silver today? How much would you get if you sold Bernie 100 ounces of silver today? If Bernie is making at least $9/ounce, then with silver at around $23/ounce that's at least $31/ounce, a 40% markup. Does that seem a bit much to you? You work in a supermarket where the markup is around 1% - do you think maybe you should reconsider your relationship with Bernie. Some sayings to consider:
The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn't argue with them. They were obviously loving somebody I wasn't. When they found this out, they would blame me for disillusioning them and fooling them. --something Bernie might say, but it was actually Marilyn Monroe --Percy
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I will be honest. i recently bought a 100 oz silver bar from Bernie. Silver spot was 25.00 an ounce. i paid 2800.00 for the bar. Check back with me in a year and we can crunch the numbers.
i know im not a wise sage. um foolish in many ways and this may prove to be one of them. But again it may not. I trust my intuition."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Phat writes: I will be honest. i recently bought a 100 oz silver bar from Bernie. Silver spot was 25.00 an ounce. i paid 2800.00 for the bar. Check back with me in a year and we can crunch the numbers.i know im not a wise sage. um foolish in many ways and this may prove to be one of them. You're just gambling again.
I trust my intuition. You're intuition is shit Phat, not least because there can be no such thing intuition forecasting silver prices. It's just a bet.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Phat writes: I will be honest. i recently bought a 100 oz silver bar from Bernie. Silver spot was 25.00 an ounce. i paid 2800.00 for the bar. Check back with me in a year and we can crunch the numbers. I can crunch the numbers right now, and they show that you have a serious problem with math. You said Bernie makes $9 an ounce, but if silver spot was $25/ounce and your price was $28/ounce then Bernie actually made $3/ounce. How much will Bernie pay to buy back that 100 oz bar? I'm just going to keep asking until you tell me, so you may as well stop ignoring this question and tell me.
I trust my intuition. Your intuition has not served you well. It would probably be far more accurate to say that unable to reason through real world information to logical conclusions, you just do what you feel like and call it your intuition. --Percy
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Percy writes: Bernie has made up to $9.00 an ounce commission as I bought some American Eagles that had higher premiums. You are correct that on this particular transaction Bernie only made $3.00 an ounce. Silver dealers typically make between $2.00 and $15.00 premium, based on what the product is and how much demand there is for it. A hunk of silver such as a bar commands less of a premium than does a rare coin. a bar stamped with the mint of origin commands a slightly higher premium than a generic silver bar with no markings.
I can crunch the numbers right now, and they show that you have a serious problem with math. You said Bernie makes $9 an ounce, but if silver spot was $25/ounce and your price was $28/ounce then Bernie actually made $3/ounce. How much will Bernie pay to buy back that 100 oz bar? The usual price is the daily spot price from the Comex. Around the $25-$26.00 mark currently. This demand varies based on a lot of factors...namely:
Within these markets, there are both a few "Big Fish" such as JP Morgan as well as uncountable small fish which are investors...many of them stackers such as I. Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Phat writes: Percy writes: I can crunch the numbers right now, and they show that you have a serious problem with math. You said Bernie makes $9 an ounce, but if silver spot was $25/ounce and your price was $28/ounce then Bernie actually made $3/ounce. Bernie has made up to $9.00 an ounce commission as I bought some American Eagles that had higher premiums. You are correct that on this particular transaction Bernie only made $3.00 an ounce. Bernie made *only* $3/oz on your silver bar??? That's a 12% markup. That you can refer to a 12% markup as "only" just shows how far gone you are. That you have many other rubes for company doesn't make 12% a reasonable markup. Bernie made $300 total on your silver bar. Again, your supermarket markup is around 1%, just to put things in perspective. Do you know what the commission is on a typical stock transaction with Schwab (I don't use Schwab, I looked up their price table online)? Zero dollars if you do it online, up to $25 if you use one of their brokers. I recently sold a significant block of stock where the price per share was $135, and I paid about a penny per share or 0.007%. The comparison with your silver transaction is stark: I paid 0.007%, you paid 12% or about 1700 times more. Does something sound a little off to you? Are you beginning to think that maybe you metal traders are being scammed? It will be very difficult for anyone to make money with 12% overhead. You really need to read The Pit: A Story of Chicago. After the protagonist finally corners the market in wheat and is on the brink of becoming wealthy beyond measure, farmers around the world suddenly begin delivering wheat to market in unprecedented quantities. The price of wheat crashes and he is bankrupted. Silver is a commodity just like wheat. The higher the price the more motivated producers become to deliver silver to market, and additional silver hits the market in the form of jewelry suddenly valuable. The price of silver will rise and fall and even occasionally peak, but just try identifying that peak. Most people aren't lucky or disciplined enough to sell anywhere near a peak. What most people do is follow the price down. "It's $95 today, but it was $100 yesterday, so I'll wait for it to go back up and then sell." Then the next day, "Oh, it's $90 today, but it was $100 just a couple days ago, so I'll wait for it to go back up and then sell." And on and on until the price is back where it started, at which point producers are no longer as interested as before in running the mines and smelters 24 hours a day, and old ladies decide to hold on to their jewelry. Put your money into a diversified portfolio of both stock and bond mutual funds with a mix of aggressiveness and conservatism appropriate for your age (preservation of capital becomes more important as you age) and your personality (you need to be able to sleep at night). --Percy
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5930 Joined: Member Rating: 5.8
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After the protagonist finally corners the market in wheat and is on the brink of becoming wealthy beyond measure, farmers around the world suddenly begin delivering wheat to market in unprecedented quantities. The price of wheat crashes and he is bankrupted. Silver is a commodity just like wheat. As is gold. To which I keep remembering what Johnny Carson said in 1980. Since before I was born (starting with the FDR Administration), the US government kept gold at the artificial price of about $32/oz (that is what I remember, which disagrees by a few dollars with other sources, so close enough for our purposes here). Private ownership of gold outside of reasonable amounts was not allowed. Wikipedia describes a two-tier system that tried to balance our artificial price with what was happening in the private markets and how around 1968 that was becoming more and more difficult, even impossible, to maintain. Then around 1975 that two-tiered pricing system was abandoned and the price of gold was allowed to follow find its free-market price. That sparked a flurry of speculative trading in gold and the price surged. Kind of a "gold bubble" was forming. In 1980, it peaked at $850/troy-oz and then crashed; from that Wikipedia link:
quote: Like all bubbles (as described in Boom Bust Boom), the gold market was caught up in a euphoria keeping them from seeing the coming crash; they thought that prices would continue to soar ever higher. But, as in the Tulip Bubble, one day sellers showed up but no buyers. When prices began to plummet, Johnny Carson remarked in his monologue in Jan 1980 (quoting from memory):
quote: Edited by dwise1, : Added "one day" to "sellers showed up but no buyers"
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Tangle writes: Not so fast there, podnuh. You're intuition is shit Phat, not least because there can be no such thing as intuition forecasting silver prices. It's just a bet. Any analyst uses intuition based on what they already know and have seen about the markets. I've taken a lot of what each of you says and added it to my mental database. I do keep in mind that not many of you are knowledgeable about how the precious metals commodity markets work and have worked historically, dwise1 being an exception. (Carsons joke was eerily prophetic) I feel as if I do understand these markets somewhat, and will continue to invest some, but by no means all of my assets in them. FYI, Percy, most of my investments are in traditional S&P 500 companies. I need to be able to retire and not work someday, and I don't think that Social Security alone is a good bet. Unlike Ringo, I dont bet that the US Government will take care of me. I have taken in the health advice that you have given me, Percy. It does little good to be an unhealthy man with good investments. The Doctors will get it all."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: Any analyst uses intuition based on what they already know and have seen about the markets. You're not an analyst, you're just betting based on you special spidie senses.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
The fact remains, that they have apparently decided that they can make more money by selling silver than by owning it. I dont dispute that. They need some sort of livelihood, after all. They can make quicker and more reliable money by selling it than by owning it. And we also must note that by talking it up they are helping their livelihood of selling it. I am aware of the bigger picture."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Tangle writes: My inner spidey recommends that your personal investments be widely diversified. You're not an analyst, you're just betting based on your special spidey senses. Look up Counter Cyclical Investments. Many experts recommend a portfolio that has at least 5% in precious metals. I would recommend 10% at this point in time. Once thats done you and I can relax and go fishing."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Phat writes: My inner spidey recommends that your personal investments be widely diversified. Is that what Jesus tells you?
Once thats done you and I can relax and go fishing. I relaxed and went fishing decades ago having invested in myself not half-understood "investments" that I had no control over.. You do understand that the market traders get rich by taking a percentage off every gambler's trade, not so much by gambling themselves? Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
marc9000 writes: As a political moderate, (self-proclaimed of course) I am not against any one party any more than I am against any other. I do worry that the whole idea of stimulus checks could and would get out of hand if everybody didn't get one. Censorship has reached new heights from the Democrat party, and all the branches it owns. I am, as many of you know, against reparations of any form. It's too hard to calculate what is owed, assign it to those (and only those) who individually (not collectively) qualify. It is also too hard to assign blame on an individual (rather than a collective) basis. Thus, if one guy gets a check, everybody needs to get one. Government should not be in the business of playing favorites."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4344 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.9
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Phat writes: Any analyst uses intuition based on what they already know and have seen about the markets. That's bullshit. Analysts who rely on intuition go out of business. Analysts who say they do the analysis themselves are lying. If you don't use computer systems that have all past market data programmed into their algorithms and using AI to crunch the numbers at microsecond rates you cannot hope to compete. Plus there are global markets and all sorts of hedging going on. Intuition and prayer are no more accurate at predictions than random totally blind picks. You are just trying to rationalize your relapse into your gambling addiction. Your understanding of gambling and investing is no better than Trump's. The only long term investment strategy for investors like us is to diversify in funds, stocks, and bonds and let it compound for decades. Deferred Compensation programs offered by many companies (where the tax on the initial investment was deferred until you started withdrawing money and you only pay tax on the amount you withdraw) provided lots of great retirements for Baby Boomers. You did have to pay attention to management fees, but the key was leaving your money alone and not trying to manage it to beat the markets and not gambling more than you can afford to lose on single companies or commodities.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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