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Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5966
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 481 of 794 (887380)
08-01-2021 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 479 by candle2
08-01-2021 2:43 PM


We have now observed that many dinosaur
fossils have significant amounts of C-14 in
them. Being generous to a fault, C-14 should
be undetectable after 100,000 years.
Refer to my reply on this to mike the wiz: Message 2369
Basically, you need to keep in mind how radiocarbon dating actually works! There are many different ways that C-14 can be formed, including from radioactive sources in the ground surrounding the sample. Of those many different ways of producing C-14, only C-14 produced in the atmosphere and incorporated into plants which then enter the food chain have anything to do with dating methods.
My message to mikey linked to above goes into far more detail.
Please learn something about what your claims are supposed to address in order to determine whether there's any validity to your claims.
As long as you and the rest of the creationist community fail to engage in proper and honest scholarship, nobody will take any of your flimsy false claims seriously. And as long as you (plural) tie your creationist claims to your religion and make the validity of your religion dependent on those claims, then nobody will take your religion seriously and even find very valid reasons to reject it as false and ridiculous.
Your move.
Instead of changing their beliefs to fit the facts,
evolutionists insist that iron is responsible for
the C-14 amounts, even after 75,000,000 years.
What are you talking about? Please cite your source on that.
For that matter, do you have an actual scientific source? Or is this nothing but yet another bogus creationist claim that you are repeating blindly?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 479 by candle2, posted 08-01-2021 2:43 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 482 by candle2, posted 08-01-2021 4:42 PM dwise1 has replied
 Message 483 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-01-2021 5:55 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 482 of 794 (887381)
08-01-2021 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 481 by dwise1
08-01-2021 4:16 PM


I know how carbon dating works.
Isn't it amazing that evolutionists try to
convince us of what happened tens of
millions of years ago, and they get
offended when we aren't gullible enough
To believe them.
If I can observe something, such as "kind"
reproducing the same "kind," then I can
accept that.
BUT, if I am being asked to believe that
variations in a "kind" can over long periods
of time turn one "kind" into a totally
different "kind," I won't do it.
Darwin observed finches with different size
beaks, and like an idiot, jumped to the
conclusion that this, in a way, proved
evolution.
How long do you think I would have to wait
for my 24 speed mountain bike to evolve
into a Harley?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by dwise1, posted 08-01-2021 4:16 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 485 by dwise1, posted 08-01-2021 6:30 PM candle2 has replied
 Message 487 by Coragyps, posted 08-01-2021 10:23 PM candle2 has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4500
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(3)
Message 483 of 794 (887382)
08-01-2021 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 481 by dwise1
08-01-2021 4:16 PM


As long as you and the rest of the creationist community fail to engage in proper and honest scholarship, nobody will take any of your flimsy false claims seriously.
This guy isn't messing around. He's going to try and spout all the PRATTs before he runs away. It's a shame really, I haven't seen a new, original creationist claim in more than a decade.
Radiocarbon dating has a big list of creationist PRATTs associated with it.
I'm always amazed that they are not embarrassed for spouting that BS, considering how simple and straight forward the concepts of radiocarbon dating and radiometric dating are.
These methods are supported by Terabytes of data. Radioactive decay is well understood and huge databases have been developed that document isotopic decay chains.
I guess when you are as ignorant candle 2 you can't be embarrassed by your ignorance. These guys do really well in the legislatures of republican states.
Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by dwise1, posted 08-01-2021 4:16 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5966
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 484 of 794 (887383)
08-01-2021 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 467 by candle2
08-01-2021 9:53 AM


Re: Let It Go, Phat! Do Something Useful For Yourself
It is observable science (since recorded history) that
an animal will have offsprings of the same kind. The
same goes for humans. Human mothers will always
have human babies.
Yes, that is exactly what science says, because that is how life operating in reality does work. That is also why evolution, which is based on how life operates in reality, says the same thing!
You seem to be trying to misrepresent evolution as saying something entirely different. What false words are you trying to put into evolution's mouth? Please be as specific as you can be. That would include your explanation of why you are coming to the false conclusions that you appear to be pretending to reach.
Professors cannot give an observable example where
one animal evolved (macro) into an entirely different
kind of animal.
Of course, because that is not how life works. Nor is that what evolution teaches! Why are you misrepresenting what evolution teaches? Because if you told the truth then your anti-evolution position would fall apart? So you end up having to support your position with no other way than one falsehood after another.
I know that you have been told the term, "nested hierarchies", but apparently you do not understand what that means. It's also called "clades" or monophyly -- the graphics there are much better than I could create via ASCII art.
Basically, offspring will always be in the same clade as their parents, what in your muddled terminology caricature would be a "kind" (BTW, "Kind" is the German word for "child", as in Kindergarten). They will never ever jump into a different clade. Yes, closely related clades may be able to still interbreed with varying degrees of success, but only if they are in the same next-higher clade.
Remember that a child will be very highly similar to its parents, yet slightly different. Over many generations, those differences between the n-th kid and the ancestor n generations ago will accumulate. Isolated populations of a species can, through the lack of remixing into a common gene pool, become noticeably different from each other, thus having become two different species. Both new species can go on to form newer species, but all of them will still be a part of that original clade.
You will complain that that is only micro-evolution, but that is also how macro works. Except you do not understand macro, but rather you undoubtedly have a massive wrong idea about it. And also apparently about how speciation happens, which does not happen in a single generation (as your "argument" implies) but rather over many generations.
Dr. Eugenie Scott recently gave a presentation: "What People Get Wrong--And Sometimes Right--About Evolution." I have posted it in Message 111 preceded by a message in which I presented my notes on it just immediately before finally finding the video.
Part of creationists' misunderstanding of evolution is that they are caught in the millennia-old idea of The Great Chain of Being, AKA "The Ladder of Life", in which species progress up the chain (or ladder) from more primitive to more advanced until they reach our position at the top. Thus, according to that absolutely wrong model, evolving involves jumping up the chain (or ladder) to become something completely different. Absolutely wrong and that's why you don't understand anything. We have so often seen that kind of misunderstanding leading to creationist "proofs against evolution" by pointing out that we do not see dogs giving birth to kittens. Absolute rubbish that only a creationist would be ignorant enough to say.
Rather, Darwin's idea was a branching tree or bush, which is the right idea. An ancestral species splits into two or more daughter species which then go on to branch out even further. Every single branching is still on the same earlier branch, there's no jumping over to another branch like you would jump from one link in a chain (or rung on a ladder) to another. No dogs giving birth to kittens is possible, yet it can lead to dogs being ancestral to later species of "doggish" (definitely related to dogs, yet different).
Let's try to draw a picture of that since I have a feeling that you are not much for reading:
Tree:                       A
                               |
           +-------------+---------------+
           |                                          |
           B                                       C
           |                                          |
    +---+--------+           +----------+------+
    |                    |            |                        |
    D                 E           F                        G
                                      |
                             +---+--------+
                             |                  |
                             H                 I
A through I are species. Time flows down-screen. A is the common ancestor of B and C. B is the common ancestor of D and E, neither of which have daughter species of their own. C is the common ancestor of F and G. F is the common ancestor of H and I. G has no daughter species of its own.
What can we say about the relationships of these species?. First, we can classify B and C as being A-ish, which is to say that they are in the A-clade. Furthermore, D and E are B-ish so that's the B-clade, F and G are C-ish and in the C-clade, and finally H and I are F-ish and in the F-clade.
However, because their ancestors are in the A-clade, we can also say that the members of the B-clade and of the C-clade are all also members of the A-clade. H and I, being in the F-clade, are also in the C-clade and in the A-clade.
But, we can also say that D and E are not in the C-clade; that ship branched off and sailed a long time ago (mixing metaphors there). Nor are H and I in the B-clade nor, if G should ever spawn its own daughter species, would they ever be in that G-clade.
In essence, that is how nested hierarchies work. Descendant species are in the same clades as their ancestors, but not those of their cousins.
So, dogs and cats are in two very different clades, so dogs cannot have kittens. However, they, along with bears, are in a same clade because they all share a common ancestor, a carnivore. That carnivorous ancestor was also placental (carrying its fetus longer thanks to having a placenta as opposed to what marsupials need to do). Not only that, but it was also ( ... wait for it, wait for it ... ) a mammal! Going further back through the cladistic levels, it was also an amniota (egg bearing), and a tetrapod (basic body plan including four limbs), and a chordate (AKA vertebrate), as well as being a member of Animalia.
I'm sure you've been fed that BS argument against Peppered Moths: "BUT THEY'RE STILL MOTHS!" Are you starting to see the error in that non-argument? Of course they're still moths! And even though speciation did not occur in that study, when they do eventually speciate their daughter species will still be moths, just a different kind of moth!
 
Please learn something about evolution so that you can oppose it with truthful arguments that actually address actual problems with it, not with false claims based on abject ignorance.
You've been trying ignorance for about a century now and it still does not work! You might consider trying a different approach, like actually learning what evolution actually is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 467 by candle2, posted 08-01-2021 9:53 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 492 by candle2, posted 08-02-2021 9:47 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5966
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(2)
Message 485 of 794 (887384)
08-01-2021 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 482 by candle2
08-01-2021 4:42 PM


I know how carbon dating works.
Obviously you do not, since you are relying on such complete and utter bullshit.
So show me that you know. Describe how carbon dating works, including where the C-14 comes from and how it gets into organic specimen. Then explain what that is supposed to have to do with dinosaur fossils; ie, how is that C-14 supposed to have gotten into inorganic mineralized material which is what those fossils are.
So if you know so much about radiocarbon dating and all that, then why don't you demonstrate to us just how much you do know. Oh, yeah, you already have. Nothing.
Until you do so, we can arrive at no other conclusion than that you are deliberately lying to us. And that your god is The Lord of Lies. Pleased to meet you, can you guess his name?
If I can observe something, such as "kind"
reproducing the same "kind," then I can
accept that.
That is exactly what evolution teaches. So why don't you accept it as you just promised?
Oh yeah, you just told us yet another lie.
BUT, if I am being asked to believe that
variations in a "kind" can over long periods
of time turn one "kind" into a totally
different "kind," I won't do it.
That doesn't happen. Nor does evolution say that that would happen. Why would you think such a ridiculous thing? Only a brainless creationist would even come with such total nonsense. So you've been fooled by yet another creationist lie.
Read my Message 484 for some good gouge on that.
How long do you think I would have to wait
for my 24 speed mountain bike to evolve
into a Harley?
That is not how bikes work. And that is not even remotely close to how evolution works. Your nonsense is so completely wrong on so many levels.
Do you really believe such complete and utter nonsense? Only a brainless creationist would.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 482 by candle2, posted 08-01-2021 4:42 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 494 by candle2, posted 08-02-2021 10:03 AM dwise1 has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 487 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 486 of 794 (887389)
08-01-2021 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 472 by candle2
08-01-2021 10:49 AM


Re: Let It Go, Phat! Do Something Useful For Yourself
candle2 writes:
Did you mean punisher?
I meant what I said. The one being punished doesn't care if there's a difference between punishing and punishment.
Only apologists trying to make excuses for the punisher would care if there's a difference.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 472 by candle2, posted 08-01-2021 10:49 AM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 490 by candle2, posted 08-02-2021 9:30 AM ringo has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 810 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(1)
Message 487 of 794 (887391)
08-01-2021 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 482 by candle2
08-01-2021 4:42 PM


Bicycles do not reproduce. Not ever.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 482 by candle2, posted 08-01-2021 4:42 PM candle2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 489 by candle2, posted 08-02-2021 9:26 AM Coragyps has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3977
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 488 of 794 (887392)
08-02-2021 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 478 by Admin
08-01-2021 2:42 PM


Re: Moderator Request
The off-topic continues.
Admin (the message this is a reply to) and a couple of others have offered up links to more appropriate threads and/or or have replied via more appropriate threads. Please follow there guidance.
Adminnemooseus

Or something like that©.

This message is a reply to:
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candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 489 of 794 (887395)
08-02-2021 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 487 by Coragyps
08-01-2021 10:23 PM


Bicycles have as much of a chance of reproducing
as a human mother has of giving birth to a crow.
In any event, couldn't a bicycle evolve into a
Harley if we allowed it tens of millions of years
to do so?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 487 by Coragyps, posted 08-01-2021 10:23 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 497 by Tangle, posted 08-02-2021 11:45 AM candle2 has not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 490 of 794 (887396)
08-02-2021 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 486 by ringo
08-01-2021 9:39 PM


Re: Let It Go, Phat! Do Something Useful For Yourself
I'm not making excuses for God. He needs no excuse.
If you do not wish to be given eternal life, then so be it

This message is a reply to:
 Message 486 by ringo, posted 08-01-2021 9:39 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 495 by ringo, posted 08-02-2021 10:16 AM candle2 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18384
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 491 of 794 (887398)
08-02-2021 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 470 by ringo
08-01-2021 10:45 AM


Re: Let It Go, Phat! Do Something Useful For Yourself
The only reason the punishee cares is that he questions the authority of the source of the punishment. You always argued in defense of satan and hypothetically wondered whether or not he was actually the good guy.
Were I the one being punished, I might want to at least know if I was being punished by the Lawmen or the criminals.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 470 by ringo, posted 08-01-2021 10:45 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 493 by ringo, posted 08-02-2021 9:59 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 492 of 794 (887400)
08-02-2021 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 484 by dwise1
08-01-2021 6:08 PM


Re: Let It Go, Phat! Do Something Useful For Yourself
Dwise 1.
You have a rather long post, and I have a small
cellphone. I would prefer you to make much
smaller post if possible, even if it requires a greater
number of posts.
Isolation leads to a loss of information; this
is not evolution.
You still make the assertion that minute changes
over millions of years will create a different "kind"
than the parent "kind."
This is not provable. In fact, it is impossible to
prove this. It is not observable. And, it takes
an enormous amount of faith to do believe this.
All evolutionists believe in the same fairly tale.
It begins like this: "long ago and far away."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 484 by dwise1, posted 08-01-2021 6:08 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 487 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 493 of 794 (887401)
08-02-2021 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 491 by Phat
08-02-2021 9:41 AM


Re: Let It Go, Phat! Do Something Useful For Yourself
Phat writes:
The only reason the punishee cares is that he questions the authority of the source of the punishment.
Did the Jews need to question Hitler's authority? Isn't it pretty damn obvious that nobody has the authority to exterminate other people?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 491 by Phat, posted 08-02-2021 9:41 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
candle2
Member
Posts: 873
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 494 of 794 (887402)
08-02-2021 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 485 by dwise1
08-01-2021 6:30 PM


C-14 decays into N-14.
The half life of C-14 is roughly 5700
and some-odd years.
This is why I stated that after 100,000
years (probably closer to 50,000) no C-14
is detectable in fossils. The soil has nothing
to do with this.
It is ludicrous to believe that significant
amounts of C-14 is still present in 75,000,000
year old fossils, regardless of the soil or the
presence of iron in the soil.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 485 by dwise1, posted 08-01-2021 6:30 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 496 by dwise1, posted 08-02-2021 10:20 AM candle2 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 487 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 495 of 794 (887405)
08-02-2021 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 490 by candle2
08-02-2021 9:30 AM


Re: Let It Go, Phat! Do Something Useful For Yourself
candle2 writes:
I'm not making excuses for God.
You still haven't told us what you think the difference is between punishing and punishment.
Edited by ringo, : Fixed attribution.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 490 by candle2, posted 08-02-2021 9:30 AM candle2 has not replied

  
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