|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,838 Year: 4,095/9,624 Month: 966/974 Week: 293/286 Day: 14/40 Hour: 3/2 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Anti-theist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
my mistake.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Touche! But I never really ignore Him. I hear Him in my conscience. I just get mad when people who dont even believe He is alive insist that I listen to a character in a book. It seems like a fellow student trying to teach the class.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: When did I ever say I knew these concepts were not true?(or at least possibly true) It is *you* who like to guide and frame the arguments according to your logic and inform me what I must then believe. Your claim was that the creator is more important than the creation, which is as silly as your claim that the messenger is more important than the message. You know those things are not true, so why do you keep repeating them?"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
So whats with this TRVTH nonsense? Have you pagans invented a new magik word?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
How many times a day do you bow down to Henry Ford or Thomas Edison? You seem to have problems categorizing things in order of importance. Yesterday I was bored and found myself staring at the quotes that I had assembled in my signature. I focused on Leo Tolstoy and resolved to look up the book from which it was taken. (You remember Tolstoy...a respected author and intellectual near the turn of last century. He wrote War & Peace. So I found the book in its entirety translated into English online.
The Kingdom Of God Is Within You Aside from my quote which I found in context, Tolstoy had some insightful observations about Christianity and organized religion.
quote:He sounds a bit like you. Perhaps he would have approved of the message superseding the messenger, though in reading more, I highly doubt it. quote: I like old Tolstoy! Intellectuals back in those days still respected the character of Christ and it(He) was reflected within their thoughts on the matter. Edited by Phat, : message v messenger"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
You don't throw away your bills and worship the envelopes. Again, one must view these things in context.There is one God. Not many. Loki and the spaghetti monster dont even count. Edison was a human inventor...not a Creator of all seen and unseen. Envelopes and letters are not even in the same league and context as are Creator and creation. You insist on relative equivalence. I am simply reminding you that you are wrong. Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
How can you respect somebody when you deny His teachings? I talk with the teacher. He knows that I have problems with His teachings. He continually reminds me why I am wrong and He does so in a loving way. He likely would forgive you for unbelief and would expand upon what was written in the Book. But go on and follow human logic, reason, and perception. You too will learn the errors of your ways if it is meant to be so."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: Nonsense. I respect other men who have done, endured, and learned far more than I have. All I'm saying is that I believe that Jesus is more than the character in the book. You may be technically right in that I don't simply jump up and do everything He said to do to those whom He was talking to in the book. And if you then suggest that what was said in the book applies to all of us today, I would agree. I am not so quick to judge people who ignore what He said, for we all fall short. As to whether I talk to Him or to a fantasy Jesus I made up in my head, I will only say that I believe that I know Him and that though I take your admonitions under advisement, I see no evidence that you know Him any better than I do and thus we are both at the same human level. And you put yourself above Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. When others attempt to tell me that He doesn't exist or that He is a made up character, I respectfully remain silent. There are no winners here.
ringo writes: If you care, you might try saying a prayer for me. Reminding me what the book says is not going to help me suddenly decide to believe without questioning. Im only human. But will He forgive YOU?"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
anglagard writes: I never have believed Jesus to be just a character in a book. I surmised that many people do. And yes, I can always read more...as long as the good Lord lets me keep my eyes. So, Phat, what have you read among these works I mentioned? Still believe Jesus to be "just a character in a book?""A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0
|
I just watched that video on Christianity and the summation of its history.
Based on what I've read and on my own common sense (intuition?) I agree largely with the conclusion of the author/creator. The Schism was well represented as was the politicization of the church. I am not simply an ignorant fundamentalist. (Though I can be a charismaniac at times ) I feel that the facts of history tend to support the concept of human sin, greed, and lust for power and control. The video pointed out the ongoing disagreements between different sects of Christianity. The author says that if we assume we can learn from each other, it is more helpful than being autocratic and rigid. In our ongoing disagreement between conservatism and liberalism, I may someday find that the liberals, though seemingly indifferent to organized religion and spiritual absolutes will later prove to be the vessel through whom Christianity is preserved rather than slandered. Conversely, the conservatives who outwardly profess the authoritarian values of absolute truth will be found to be slandering it and making their own religion up. You never know. (Im watching the Judaism video now)
transcript 07:11 writes: . This guy is pretty good with his humor combined loosely with historical facts. I'm enjoying these videos. For the most part, the Islamic empires were pretty good about tolerance, so long as they were "people of the book," so to speak, and not pagans.This worked out well, because Judaism, unlike Medieval Christianity, had no problem being just one religion in the mix. Edited by Phat, : added jabberwocky "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Percy, replying to Raphael writes: Its all about perspective. It is how we are raised, what we take in from our environment, and what we feel comfortable with in a given worldview (or Belief). I could well ask you(Percy) what the world would be like if every human were identical in thought and belief. What if we all practiced altruism and empathy for others...focusing first on the least fortunate among us? Stile put it well in another post:
So the Bible has all these "gaps in knowledge, inconsistencies, and blind spots" (not to mention outright errors), but you believe the stories. Why? Islam likewise has problems, but I assume you believe those real. Why? What if there were no differences, no discrepancies, no internal or external errors? What if every copy of every Biblical book were identical, like the text of all copies of The Hobbit are identical? You'd still believe it all. Why?Stile writes: Raphael likely experienced a lot of love and support from his upbringing yet was challenged through his friends and later church and academic community. His perspective is different than one who experienced hate, intolerance, or divisiveness caused at least in part through organized religion. If love had a being, I would follow it/him/her/they (because I follow love.)If a Divine Being existed, and it embodies love, then I think we should all want more of this Diving Being in my life (because I want more love in all lives.) But if I already follow love, and a being happens to exist that embodies that love... nothing about my life would change.I would already be following that Divine Being, without even knowing it, just by following love. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I hope that I do. I realize that I cant defend the supernatural as a fact.
I believe very strongly that it is, though I acknowledge that it is technically a belief absent objective evidence. I plan on starting a Great Debate with Raphael. Can you approve it? I started it in the Great Debate topic and I came up as AdminPhat...and since I can't promote my own topic... There are rumors that Elvis is alive just as there are many Believers who claim that Jesus is alive. We don't hear as much from the mainstream regarding Elvis as we do concerning Jesus. Granted His resurrection was bodily and the Holy Spirit fills in for Him until He returns Bodily, according to the claims of many Christians. I respect your defense of separating science from belief, however."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I studied Thomas Paine's theories. We had him as required reading in school, but I must have missed that day. I was fascinated yet annoyed concerning his theories on religion. It is where many of you got pieces parts of yours.
On a related note, I saw where you are a DSA member. I watched an excellent (in my opinion) video (30 minutes long) that fully explains the mysteries behind modern finance, government debt, and where we as a people have been, now are, and are going to end up financially. My question to you is this: Were the DSA in power, what would they do to skillfully wind down the problems caused by government and the wealthy and money in general? What would the average man on the street end up with? Better or worse than what we have now?"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I think in context they are referring to a Heavenly Temple rather than the earthly one mentioned thousands of years ago in the book.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
In response to the both of you, and without doing any deep and detailed study...I have arrived at an apologetic answer. I hope it satisfies the question.(I never looked this answer up and I don't know if its a common apologetic answer or not, but its what came to me) I thought back to scriptural context. Of how we would ourselves become "Living Stones". (1 Peter 2:4-6.)
Perhaps a Heavenly Temple would be made up of Living Stones, with Jesus being the "chief cornerstone." I'm just winging it on this one, but the symbolism is apt. The Living Stones themselves need to be cleaned up before any earthly temple needs scrubbing. Its just a building after all. And I've not studied anything from Ellen White, but may look into it all at a later time. One more thing. The Living Stones may have a job to do themselves on earth before finally being in Heaven. Of course, some of you imagine either all of us or none of us being Living Stones, so we will have to put up with more relativistic arguments concerning humans and the gods they love! "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024