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Author | Topic: The God Delusion Debate | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17919 Joined: Member Rating: 6.6 |
quote: I think you are confusing communism in a more general sense with Marxism in particular. Neither Ringo nor Jesus say much about the proletariat seizing the means of production! But the Disciples seem pretty communist to me - only a little while after Jesus’ death:
44 All who believed were together and had all things in common; 45 they would sell their possessions and goods and distribute the proceeds to all, as any had need. (Acts 2, NRSV)
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Phat Member Posts: 18651 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
jar writes: Quite so. Science is evidence based. Perhaps a better rephrasing of the question is Does Evidence Control Belief? And should it? I have been asked many times to answer the question as to The Holy Spirit being present and/or Jesus being alive. Jar always claims that nobody has given him an answer. My esponse to that is why he seems dense and confused enough to nver come up with his own answer, apart from vetoing traditional beliefs in the name of evidence based science. Reality controls science. I certainly found my own answers, but will never be able to explain my own mind to anyone else. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18651 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Good point. ringo himself has mentioned being quite far to the left ideologically. Marxism is an outdated concept. (some of us think communism is also, seeing as how it failed after the Cold War. The only folks left who embraced it lived in nations too poor to ever embrace Capitalism.) As for Jesus and the Book of Acts, I see it as a story in the context of those times. No humans worth their salt would ever lay everything at the feet of Government.(Todays Apostles) Nor would they lay it at the feet of some televangelist! Which begs the question as to Whom we are called to give it all up for and whose feet we should lay our stuff under.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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jar Member (Idle past 97 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Phat writes: You yourself have used science to justify describing the Creator of all seen and unseen as unknowable,which is to me a clear bias against Christianity. No Phat, stop misrepresenting my position. I am a Christian and so to claim I have a bias against Christianity is just plain stupid. I use evidence to reach a conclusion including what is actually written in the Bible.
Phat writes: You and ringo also assert scientifically that Jesus likely never existed and that the Virgin Birth is simply a marketing tool. You can say that your argument is unbiased and is simply logic, reason, and reality in action, but the fact that you market the notion that evidence based logic is the cornerstone of your religion and belief while literally showing bias towards organized Christianity and intolerance towards its believers Again Phat, stop misrepresenting my position. What I have said repeatedly is that there is no evidence that Jesus ever really existed. Evidence is not the cornerstone of my religion; belief is. What I point out is that it is dishonest to claim something a fact when it is only supported by belief and not evidence beyond the fact that I hold beliefs. I'm not intolerant of others that hold different beliefs as long as they do not attempt to impose their beliefs on others. When you or others try to claim that the god you create and worship is more valid or real or correct than Ganesha or Buddha or Allah or Ra then of course I take exception. Remember Phat, the CCoI are not demons and are certainly Christians, just very willfully ignorant Christian.My Website: My Website
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PaulK Member Posts: 17919 Joined: Member Rating: 6.6
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quote: Well, that is all varieties of Marxism, at least in name.
quote: That’s hardly what anyone is telling you to do.
quote: Unfortunately too many people do send too much money to televangelists.
quote: You’re practically begging jar to cite Matthew 25 at you - again.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9583 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.5 |
Phat writes: many populist conservatives thought that he was shut down by a liberally leaning media. I'm sure they do and nothing will change their minds. Yet in fact all that happened was he broke the T&Cs of the media platforms and was lucky to have been tolerated for so long.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
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ringo Member (Idle past 670 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Same with the phone book. There are some things where theism just isn't applicable.
jar writes:
True, but there appears to be nothing theistic either. There is nothing in science that is atheistic. Phat writes:
The methodology is not biased. I know (as does everyone else) that your arguments are designed to expose and demonize CCoI believers. Which is biased. On some level, we are biased against murderers, robbers, liars, etc. but the methodology we use to catch them is not inherently biased."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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nwr Member Posts: 6484 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 9.1 |
Now, beginning only in the past few decades, and ramping up drastically in only the past few years, we're seeing an increasing hostility and intolerance towards conservative free speech.
Where? Is there any evidence of this? I still see great respect for freedom of speech.
For months now, Donald Trump has been banned from Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Youtube, and Snapchat.
That has nothing to do with free speech. Those are private businesses. And, according to conservative principles (if there are any of those remaining), businesses are entitled to make these decisions.
This forum's longtime poster Faith, was permanently banned, not for breaking forum rules or vulgar language, but for having an opinion on something that administration deemed "dangerous".
Again, that has nothing to do with free speech. I opposed the banning of Faith. However, this is a privately owned forum. The owner of the forum has the right to make that decision as a way of exercising his right of free speech. And you have the right to setup your own forum if you wish to.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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ringo Member (Idle past 670 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Learn what Marxism is. Marx was concerned about class struggle and so are you. I am not.
PaulK writes:
Ringo is darn close! ... there aren’t any Marxists here, for instance. Phat writes:
Jesus said what he said.
Yet he cloaks it with "what Jesus said to do." Phat writes:
Well, Jesus did preach brother and sisterhood - and yes, we know you're against what Jesus said. This whole idea that the world should be some secular Kum Ba Yah brother and sisterhood is never gonna fly on my watch!"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 670 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I have also mentioned that ideologies are for lazy thinkers. In some ways I am more conservative than you.
ringo himself has mentioned being quite far to the left ideologically. Phat writes:
Maybe so.
Marxism is an outdated concept. Phat writes:
I always ask, and never get much of an answer: Did communism fail because of its own flaws? Or did it fail because its enemies spent billions and billions and billions of dollars to make it fail?
some of us think communism is also, seeing as how it failed after the Cold War. Phat writes:
That's an interesting comment on capitalism. Are you saying one has to be rich to embrace capitalism?
The only folks left who embraced it lived in nations too poor to ever embrace Capitalism. Phat writes:
Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. No humans worth their salt would ever lay everything at the feet of Government. Nobody is saying ANYTHING about government. We're talking about laying everything at JESUS' feet."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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jar Member (Idle past 97 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Phat writes: No humans worth their salt would ever lay everything at the feet of Government. You keep using the word Government. I don't think you know what the word means! Since we are in the USofA, what do you think the word Government means in relation to the people living in the USofA?My Website: My Website
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Phat Member Posts: 18651 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Of, By, and For the people?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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jar Member (Idle past 97 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Of, By, and For the people? Okay, you can copy & paste. What does that mean?My Website: My Website
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Percy Member Posts: 22953 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
dwise1 writes: Even though the current creationists may realize defeat, undoubtedly the next generation of creationists, not knowing about that defeat since nobody will tell them about it, will try to pick up the fight again. I don't think current creationists recognize defeat so much as that they're just not in the same league as the previous generation of creationists. There were a large number of very active and very effective creationists at the national level twenty years ago. If we were still dealing with the equivalent of Henry Morris, Duane Gish, Michael Behe, William Dembski, Andrew Snelling, John Baumgardner, Kent Hovind, Kurt Wise, Walt Brown and so forth in their prime I think things would be very different. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22953 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 6.9 |
This is a creation/evolution thread, so I've created a different thread for the political discussion that's taking place here: Who's the bigger offender: Conservatives or Liberals?. Hopefully the title is appropriate enough.
--Percy
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