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Author Topic:   Who Made God?
dwise1
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Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 820 of 868 (862982)
09-18-2019 2:50 AM
Reply to: Message 815 by Theodoric
09-17-2019 7:56 PM


Re: None Are Righteous..And Some Apologize
Faith writes:
It is also known that he made use of eugenics as he understood it from Darwinism (as did Margaret Sanger)
I do not know that that is known. How do you know it?
I understand your skepticism, especially given Faith's years of spouting bat-shit crazy fullshirt false and baseless proclamations. When it comes to the mindless spoutings of Faith and others like her, the best policy is always: when in doubt, doubt.
Well, as Rick Perry once said: "Even a broken clock is right once a day." (Rick Perry succeeded G. Dubya Bush as Governor of Texas, to which Texans started calling Dubya "the smart one").
There was a rather active and vibrant eugenics program operating in the USA in the early 20th Century. What it's ties to Darwinism were supposed to be, I don't know, but basically it was based on a conceit that if selective breeding is good enough for our livestock, then it's good enough for us.
A lot of National Socialist thought centered around maintaining the purity of genetic lines. Nazis were creationists who believed that the proper humans (AKA "Aryans") were a separate creation from the rest of humanity, the "sub-humans" -- curiously, I've seen the exact same story being used by USA racists.
A lot of film, both American and German, based in the Hitlerzeit ("Hitler Time") delves into the prevalence of eugenics in Nazi fixations.
First, there's the rhetoric of the mixing of separate creations, Aryans with "sub-humans", which is also a concern in American racism (refer to a nearly classic Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers strip on the subject -- see footnote).
First there was a cinema classic, Judgment at Nuremberg (the town's name is actually Nürnberg). In one scene, the neutering of an "inferior individual" in order to protect the germline was justified by the German attorney (Maximillian Schell) by the USA's own eugenics movement and some state eugenics laws, showing that the Americans judging the Germans had done the exact same things themselves.
Then there was a TV movie with Lee Remick, Of Pure Blood (1986), in which a German raised from childhood in the USA returns to Germany to learn that she was a product of a Nazi breeding program, the Lebensborn ("Fount of Life").
There was another TV movie or limited series depicting life in the Hitlerzeit. I forget whether it was in English or German, but I suspect that it was a USA production since it was so long ago as to preclude Netflix or the like. A couple's child had been born. The very first thing that the nurse did was to show the new parents that their child had ten fingers and ten toes. Id est, that it was normal.
Netflix has carried two series about the famous charity hospital in Berlin, Charité, meaning Barmherzlichkeit. The first series was set around 1890 with pioneering medical research including vaccines for devastating life-threatening diseases that we no longer even notice, thanks to their work back then. The second series is Charite at War, which takes place in the Hitlerzeit.
In the latter series, Charit at War, set in the Hitlerzeit, a couple (him a physician already and her just about ready to graduate as an physician) have a daughter. When she's born, they go through the same "ten fingers, ten toes" rigamarole to demonstrate she's normal. But then she develops hydrocephalus, which is not a Nazi approved genetic condition, and the parents have to deal with that.
 


 
FOOTNOTE:
 
The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers appeared in several strips in the Los Angeles Free Press back in the day (ie, pre-1970) along with a shorter strip about one of the brother's cat, "Fad Freddy's Cat", arguably some of the more creative material).
In one strip, two of the brothers wanted to take a cross-country trip, but one car didn't have any steering and the other didn't have any functioning engine or transmission. So they strapped the two cars together (not unlike two turtles humping, visually speaking) with the one in back providing the drive and the one in front providing the steering. Months later they reappear on the scene without the cars. When asked what had happened, they said that everything was fine until they reached the south where the cars were impounded for mixed-race intercourse (did I forget to mention that the car in back with the drive was black and the car in front with the steering was white?) -- a black car humping a white car? Oh hells no!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 815 by Theodoric, posted 09-17-2019 7:56 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 823 by Theodoric, posted 09-18-2019 8:38 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(3)
Message 866 of 868 (886034)
05-03-2021 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 864 by jar
05-03-2021 6:41 AM


Re: So What About Jesus?
There is no evidence that Jesus actually lived other than the stories; no independent confirmation. And there is overwhelming evidence that "Jesus" as recorded in the stories and traditions is a creation of human minds just like all the Gods and gods.
There was (and most likely still is, since they never make any progress) a proselytizing script based on a catch-phrase (by C.S. Lewis, I seem to recall): "So based on the claims he made about himself, what was Jesus? Lunatic, Liar, or Lord?" -- c. 1970 (my time among the Jesus Freaks) there was even a Chick Pubs tract with 3-L as its title and main argument.
That leaves out the fourth and far more important "L": Legend. What the New Testament and associated works (eg, church fathers, theologians, preachers, street proselytizers) described is a legend, not an actual person or demi-god.
The entire question of whether an actual person, Jesus, actually lived is completely meaningless. The Legend is the important thing and the Legend exists whether the actual person existed or not. And whether such a person did anything that's attributed to the Legend.
It doesn't take long for a legend to arise, even when based on an actual person. If Jesus actually lived, his conversion to legend took maybe a couple/few generations. George Washington and Abraham Lincoln actually lived, but they became legends very quickly, within decades. Every schoolchild learns their legends (eg, Father's cherry tree, Honest Abe), but rarely who and what they actually were.
The process of turning a person into a legend takes even less time. In less than three years, Trump became a legend who is a God recast in the image of the legendary Rambo complete with a shirtless muscular body, star-spangled head band, and an AR-15 in either hand -- actually, that shirtless look is probably taken from Trump's own god, Vladimir Putin. Of course the real Trump is nothing at all like the legend, but then that's how the process usually works.
In Jesus' case, he was either recast or created out of whole cloth in the image of Mithra. The person, Jesus, is unimportant. It is the Legend, Jesus, that is important.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 864 by jar, posted 05-03-2021 6:41 AM jar has not replied

  
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