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Author | Topic: Anti-theist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Dude! I will not even quote your message! I added to it another story.
dwise1 writes: Thats why you are dwise1 and I am dcrazy1 I dont think the 1-15 acid and mushroom trips I took ever had long term effects on my mental health today, but I doubt I could prove it in a court. The more questions they asked about my past and about my present beliefs, the more I would hurt my own case! Alcohol and grass is all I ever ingested in college. Never acid."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
AZPaul3 writes: I like the ice cream pun! Nice touch!
Brothers and sisters, are you lost? Do you find no cosmic purpose to life? Do you feel helpless within yourself and are you seeking the comfort and guidance of a greater power? Welcome to our Sundae Service. If comfort and guidance are what you seek then you will find them in family, both the family you are given and the extended family you gather around you. The only purpose in this universe is the purpose you give it. If you have love to give then give it to family. They need it more than the ghost. I was about ready to poke fun and ridicule this statement. Then I reread it. And thought to myself how old AZPaul hit the nail on the head! The Ghost does not need love. He needs simply for us to love...each other. And the demons hate this. Of course they hate everything...even creamy chocolate sundaes. They are incapable of love but quite capable of seduction. Now on to ole Hitch. *listens*
quote:Priceless. Hitch writes: (1) do not condemn people on the basis of their ethnicity or their color.(2) do not ever even think of using people as private property or as owned or as slaves (3) despise those who use violence or the threat of it in sexual relations (4) hide your face and weep if you dare to harm a child (5)do not condemn people for the inborn nature (why would God create so many homosexuals only in order to torture and destroy them?)(6) be aware that you too are an animal and dependent on the web of nature try and think and act accordingly (7) don't imagine that you can escape judgment if you rob people with a false prospectus rather than with a knife (8)Turn off that cell phone! you can have no idea how unimportant your call is to us (9) denounce all jihadists and Crusaders for what they are: psychopathic criminals with ugly delusions and terrible sexual repressions(10)be willing to renounce any God or any faith if any holy Commandments should contradict any of the above. in short, don't swallow your moral code in tablet form Not bad! Hitch proves that God loves atheists."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
You and I almost agree on the good ship Club:Christian.
You seem to think the biggest obstacle is Ignorance. I think that the biggest obstacle is Arrogance. I would even go so far as to rename it the CCoA "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
So much to argue against!
AZ writes: Blanket statement and an appeal to popularity. There are numerous people who have benefitted from their spiritual walks. The problem which so many of you saw and hated was when religion (CCoI style) married politics back when Falwell Senior started the moral majority. And I suppose you could dredge up other examples from History...but for every one of them I could counter it with a positive event or events which helped the social order. In your specific case, I think you were one of those wired against being controlled. Religion has been nothing but shock and disappointment to humanity.Religion is a scourge that has burned a trail of blood across humanity for millennia. Oh stop it. The atheistic Soviet Union was an equal if not worse example of a scourge.Christianity has been especially (as) vile and violent as Islam has become today. We know the history of religions and we know the oppression of mind and spirit that is the hallmark of religion. Though I agree that both Christianity and Islam have been vile and violent, I do not agree with your claim that Christianity causes oppression of mind and spirit. If anything, mind is renewed and spirit comes alive. I do realize, however, that you guys will bring up Christian avoidance schooling. So you do have a semi relevant point here....though not conclusive.
Religion may have been a useful evolutionary step in the newly sentient mind of the primitive human, but it quickly become organized, a yoke of control over the minds and bodies of the population. Religion is still used today to foment violence against the heathen who has impure thoughts or crosses himself the wrong way. The rants of an anti theist! You obviously see things differently than I do because you do not see God as a factor....only religion. Replace the word religion with Jesus in all of your rants and your argument falls apart.
Religion is violence. Religion perpetrates evil in the world and is an excuse to perpetrate evil in the world. Religion is an artifact of the developing primitive mind newly capable of symbolic thought and is now, and has been for millennia, no more than chains of enslavement on the human mind and body. Quit fighting God. Of course we wont force Him on you, but we wont let you humanists force us into seeing nothing greater. We too have free will.
Religion insists on majikal thinking, (true in most cases) belief forced by violence, both physical and mental. No. The violence will come because secularism will be pushed as mandatory. Freedom of religion will never be successfully suppressed.It insists on blind belief against the face of reality and brings war against all that resist. You and ringo do not get to define what judgements the thought police will enforce. atheism will never become the default option. There will be wars if you people insist on it.
The animosity is real and well deserved. Put up your dukes old man. Lets settle this out back next to the sundial.Religion has devastated humanity and, like all such evil, needs to be resisted, vilified, scorned and insulted at every turn.
Like slavery, racism and misogyny, all bulwarks of the evil that is religion, that need to be burned from the soul of society, religion, itself, in all forms, needs to be left in the ash bin of history along with all its evils. The species has long outlived its need for ignorant majikal thinking. Our very survival on this planet depends now on recognizing and dealing with the reality of this world. It will never happen. Prepare for the global fight. Too bad we are on opposite sides. I promise I wont shoot you...but Ocasio Cortez may get smacked a time or two. First of all, religion is not the main problem. Human behavior is.Second of all, Jesus created us long before we were even capable of making Him up. On that note (and claim) however, Jesus is about relationship rather than religion. And Christianity works best when the government does not claim to be Christian (and thus RWA Authoritarian). We have a unique set of problems here in the year 2021. Jesus wont simply solve them for society collectively. I will agree with my critics that WE must do it. I will defend belief in Jesus, however, in that I believe strongly that He (in Communion with our mind) will help us better than humans simply in consensus with each other. I know that you disagree strongly, but let me remind you of what you yourself have said: "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
AZ writes: And of course you see it that way because you only see Jesus as a character in a book. If the original set has always been a cultural meme, you would have a point.
No. Still works. Of course it would since Jesus is a member in the original set religion. Logic works that way.AZ writes: Oddly, you have a point. I'm still trying to figure out why what I am learning from atheists seems as if its cultural observation shown to me by God. I'll let you guys figure that one out! I'm not fighting god. I'm fighting the human stupidity, evil and violence that belief in such non-existent bull crap inevitably creates."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
You made me happy for a minute or two as I laughed at your humor.
Im not sure yet whether I'll let you get away with the excuse that religion has caused such great harm, but I get where you are coming from. I'm glad you can make your opponents laugh before you attempt to slaughter our arguments.AZ Does It. Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
What better place to have a theistic argument than in an anti theist topic! Mr. Deity can move aside for a moment as I unpack this one.
Historic Christianity ascribed to by the early church Fathers such as Clement Of Rome is derisively slandered by many as "Biblical Christianity" though if one looks closely one can see the real counterfeit religion which is known as Progressive Christianity , Emergent Christianity or Liberal Christianity. Here is an excerpt from the introduction to the pamphlet known as The Ten Commandments Of Progressive Christianity:
quote:As I read the reasoning presented, I saw a lot of our own arguments in the literature! Lets compare and contrast First, the Ten Commandments Of Progressive Christianity: (These ten principles are actually drawn from Philip Gulley's book=,If the Church Were Christian: Rediscovering the Values of Jesus. 1) Jesus is a model for living more than an object of worship. Our very own jar has repeatedly hammered home the point that Jesus life(as an example) was more important than His death (Burial and Resurrection). quote: 2)Affirming People's Potential Is More Important Than Reminding Them Of Their Brokenness. quote: 3) The Work of Reconciliation Should Be Valued over Making Judgements. On the surface, this one seems rational. Judge not lest ye be judged...and all that? Lets examine the arguments: quote:jar has argued that "Original Sin" was nothing more than an evolved marketing tool. Original Sin was perhaps an original marketing tool, but sin and rebellion are intrinsic parts of human nature. We cant simply finagle science into excusing our behaviors. quote: 4) Gracious Behavior Is More Important Than Right Belief--We argue this one a lot here at EvC. Of course my arguments never get off the ground because I cant even get many of my opponents to agree that Jesus should be worshiped rather than simply humanized and emulated. In the world of EvC there is no "right" belief.
quote:Moving on... 5) Inviting Questions Is More Valuable Than Supplying Answers--jar taught me this one, and I have grown a lot through its application. quote:( as I am doing by sharing these arguments )serious intellectual engagement is not an option. IF the progressive commandment above is designed merely to correct this kind of approach(then) point taken. But it would be a caricature to portray Christians (or Christianity) as a whole as anti-intellectual propaganda-dispensers. Lets pause a moment before mentioning the next five. Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
More to the point, few conservatives are Christians in the strict sense of the word.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: Perhaps my view is immaturely developed and in that sspirit I agree with you. I have no right. You openly reject what Jesus said, so you have no business claiming to have the "right" view of Christianity. I'm claiming that neither do any of you. Especially if you believe any of these faux commandments."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Thanks, AZ. I will only hijack the thread for a moment in order to present my rant over progressive Christianity to the anti-theists. Mr. Deity would likely mop the floor with me. But I try.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
quote: 6) Encouraging the Personal Search Is More Important Than Group Uniformity-- 7) Meeting Actual Needs Is More Important Than Maintaining Institutions-- 8)Peacemaking Is More Important Than Power-- 9) We Should Care More about Love and Less about Sex-- 10) Life in This World Is More Important Than the Afterlife-- So there you have it. Care to discuss any of them? Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Edited by Phat, : No reason given. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ALL truth claims are dubious without evidence. Until we have evidence that the Bible is "the word of God", we should be just as dubious as we are about the Book of Mormon. So essentially what you are trying to do is take the absolute truth claims of one belief...Historic Christianity...and strip them of their claim to be right...and hang that title instead on "evidence pending" or science. Quite clever and bold, but hardly enforceable. As for the Book of Mormon...it isn't even in the same league with the historic Christian faith. A modern cult at best. Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: The idiot in question is this author:
Phat, quoting some idiot, writes:
Wrong. The only way that the progressive argument works is if one already "knows" the Bible is not the word of God and therefore can declare all its truth-claims to be dubious. quote:Of course I expect that the lot of you are unimpressed with any scholastic achievement in a reformed theological seminary. Perhaps you would listen to some simple guy like "Mr.Deity". I am unimpressed with his scholastic credentials also. To Wit:Brian Dalton is a former Mormon, or "Formon". He says that some contributing parts of his de-conversion are the tenet of Mormonism that God punishes people by darkening their skin and the fact that evidence contradicts various claims of the Book of Mormon. Dalton is now an atheist. Dalton came up with the concept for the Mr. Deity web series after his reflections on the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami. Aside from being the actor to portray Mr. Deity, he is the director, writer, cinematographer, and editor. In other words he is an actor and director of his own show. (Something that would get ire and disdain were he a theist.)"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I'm hoping that your wiseguy comment regarding truth being revealed by a "sacred universe" is tongue-in-cheek. Otherwise I will be forced to label you as one of *them* who worship the creation and ignore the Creator.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Humans can't create. All that we do is recreate (or reassemble) that which has already been created. There is no new knowledge under the Sun (or Son, if you prefer)
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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