Church History In Plain Language (5th edition)

Just to what miracles, healing and deliverance do you refer? My strongest spiritual event was when I was poopin’ ‘n ‘snoopin’ through the woods (technical military term) in the wee hours on a moonless cold winter field away from all light. Then the eyes settled into night mode. To the south was the milky way in all her glory spreading out across the skyline lit up like a billion sparklers set in unison. All over the sky in every direction blazed bright with stars to a depth I had never seen. All those photons. How old were they? How far had they come? I reached out my arm and cast a shadow in star light.I had an epiphany of enlightenment that moment. How insignificant and yet how significant this little speck of life-covered rock really is. It struck deep and it struck hard. We are precious because, apparently, we are rare. Yet in this galaxy of extreme violence we are just a fragile speck of flotsam open to destruction at any moment from anywhere.From there springs a philosophy of life.That is how a realist, an atheist, has a spiritual event. Just as powerful, just as meaningful, as any other you may have had or heard and just as subjective and just as meaningless to the universe as any of them.It’s in your head, Phat.

Like I said in my last message, it's all in your head, Phat.None of this is realSomething to consider.As to this great cosmic lottery, keep in mind that our knowledge of physics is quite strong. We know in detail the operations of this universe and though we see what seems to be determinism we know that underneath there is the probabilistic nature of the universe.We can see in the physics where, if we rewind the cosmic clock back 14 billions years ago what would result would not be the same as we see now. This sun and its planets most probably would not be formed all their materials having been randomly shuffled over cosmic time to other structures. No Earth, no humans. And with that, no talk of grace or gods.The enormous complexity of the universe and the near infinite set of configurations available as probable outcomes for the matter/energy that is, preclude any repeat of the same exact outcome that we now see.Run the project again and we would not be here. Run the project an million, a billion, a trillion times yet again and we would still not be here. But the one configuration that ultimately developed from all this jostling of matter/energy included a G-type main-sequence star and a small green-blue speck of dirt in orbit around it.We get to live. We did win the Cosmic Lotto^SM.There is nothing in quantum theory that builds any mathematical or philosophical cave in which to hide your god. There is nothing in quantum or classical theory that leaves any reason to propose the existence of some ultra-powerful physical-law-defying meddlesome entity loose to work its will on the universe.No, Phat, your god had nothing to do with any of it. She was left out of this configuration.Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

After staring at the screen for a while all I can come up with is something about blasphemy and heresy tho I can't remember why? Thank the heavens that never happened. The stopping part, that is. Sounds quite rational to me.Oh, I remember. Phat speaks as a blasphemous heretic attempting to push forward his blasphemous heretical tenet that there is such a thing as "too much weed." Heretic!And see! I can still have a rational mind whileSomething about 42. I don't get it.What?

At an early age? Oh, you bet the human mind can be programmed. Just ask the Jesuits.Later in life? With effort you can program and re-program the collective mind of an entire society. Just ask Joseph Goebbels. We have seen brainwashing. We know it is real. We know how it works.Given the skill of the practitioners the process can be as if they have taken your brain, set it on a table and uploaded their own modules without you being aware of any of it.

That may be true but both the right and religion, which might as well be the same as far as intellectual ability is concerned, are where the phenomenon is most often in use. Understandably, each seems to also have a deep need for the practice within their official rituals.

Yeah, as a matter of fact it does work. You can condition a human to respond to specific stimuli with specific actions just like Pavlov's dog without any voluntary buy-in by the victim. Far beyond mere influence. Brainwashing-and-reindoctriantion (pdf)Brainwashing in Custody Cases: The Parental Alienation Syndrome (pdf)How Brainwashing Works | HowStuffWorksThe kind of control that can be exercised by brainwashing goes far beyond mere influence. From your Message 36

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External stimuli can influence the transformation but only the mind itself can "control" the transformation.

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This is only part true for the most common forms of persuasion employed in polite society: advertising, education etc. This is not at all true for the kinds of intense dominating techniques used by jesus camp, cultists and reich-wing demagogues.Do the search, Google Scholar. The human brain, its processes and results, are quite manipulable from concerted outside control. Not just influence but control of the thought processes themselves. The constant barrage of specific stimuli will cause new synaptic connections to form and strengthen to the exclusion of others that have already formed and will now atrophy from disuse.That is how the brain functions. And in cases of intense brainwashing it is not voluntary and leaves the victim no control over its effects. In the jesus camp video the children are not being influenced. Their minds are being rewired for control of their religious thought.But this is a side tangent I'm sorry I got you into. In the context of your conversation with Phat you are right. Message 27

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We are ALL "being transformed" - some for the better, some for the worse. The fact is that there is NO correlation between "transformation" and Christianity.

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There is no hidden supernatural force that can be shown to be transforming human minds into good little Christian Soldiers. As usual with religionists seeking validation any supposed influence by some universal sky daddy to bring the beauty of Christianity to a deserving individual by screwing with the wiring in their brain is nothing more than another in a long line of mystical articles of faith denied by reality.Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Don't think of my experience as anything close to the physical and psychological damage suffered by so many. I was lucky and it was bad enough. Still, that's it for Nam. I'm done.

History. The war history of religion is bad enough but another religious crime is the stunting, the suppression, indeed, the war against intellect and science by the priests to preserve their fantasies. I wonder what our species could have achieved with that additional 1000 years of religion-free philosophical and scientific enlightenment. What would a millennium of additional science tacked on to the present day look like? We will never know. No. The reality of stars just won’t wish-away like the gods do. Stars actually exist outside my mind and have independent corroboration from within yours. I am a humanist. I am not Amish. How do you so casually separate an action from a reason? Why did they sink your aircraft carrier? Was it someplace it shouldn’t have been? Interfering in something not it’s business? Was it killing people and needed to be stopped? Or was it trying to save people from the bad guys? The devil is in the details.

No he doesn't. Message 873

You have a problem with talking/cooperating with other humans? Is the need for an enemy so strong in your soul?Who is this satan telling you international structures for resolving economic, political, social conflicts are bad? We can solve these things without bringing a knife, a gun, a bomb.International conflict resolution without the war and the blood and you call this evil?Who's feeding you this crap, Phat? It isn't anyone christian.

I can't figure out what you're talking about.What standards? Christians NOT warlords? Friends, supporters, enablers? Does the word matter? Christians have been or supported, worked for, sanctioned, some of the worst warlords in history. What are you trying to get at with this revisionist twist on history?You are complaining that we presently do not have the organizations to stop Russia, to stop China. Earlier you were arguing that such were instruments of satan. You say that an international organization with the power, the force, the influence, to stop China from making war is evil.The UN is not effective as an international enforcer. We know that. Why do you bring this up? Did you think the UN was supposed to be the world police?What are you bitchin about?

Yes, the UN gives a mechanism. There isn't a viable political structure behind it.These things need generations of experience and trust-building to evolve. Our generation could not strengthen the world's political integration by the degree many had hoped. Still, I wholeheartedly support the UN's baby steps. The core of a viable world structure is there. Maybe our kids will find the political will to use it.