You're still on your "bad apple" kick. The problem isn't bad apples. The problem is systemic. The problem is an environment that encourages the dehumanization of people not like the white majority
LOL, yeah okay... you read that in an article in Newsweek? What a vicious lie, Percy. If you honestly believe that a majority of police officers are doing whatever they can to dehumanize people that aren’t white, then the real issue is that you are exposed to only the most negative cases and never, ever the overwhelming number of cases that help people of all races without prejudice. This isn’t the Antebellum South.... if you feel this way then maybe it speaks more to your hang ups and implicit biases.
Except that "all police officers" do not resent Derek Chauvin.
Really??? I’ve never met even one Chauvin apologist let alone heard of one. Are you referring to all of 6 people nationwide?
And BLM is getting increasing pushback from the paler portions of our citizenry.
LOL the overwhelming majority of BLM are disaffected white college suburb kids disconnected with reality! It’s a bunch of white losers pretending to play revolutionary cosplay
And what pushback are you referring to? Not wanting to be accosted in the street for existing? Upset that their family business of 40 years was burned down for being in the way?
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
the presence of racism increases the likelihood of racist acts. It doesn't tell you which acts were motivated by racism.
You insist that racism among law enforcement is systemic while simultaneously implying that on a case by case basis we cannot know the individual motivations, but the peanut gallery, every time there is a critical incident involving white police officer(s) and a black subject is that it must have been racially motivated. That is a contradictory position to hold.
So you think that if it weren't for CNN nobody would have ever heard of George Floyd? You think police misconduct isn't news?
No, I'm suggesting that CNN is in the business of manufacturing news instead of reporting on it. CNN, the absolute worse of the worst. They drive narratives that otherwise should be left to the observer to speculate on why something occurred.
highly respected news media who have built their reputations over generations is the most reliable way to learn what's going on in the world. If you're not getting your information from news media outlets then where are you getting it? Facebook? Twitter?
There are almost no media outlets remaining that objectively report news. Traditional media outlets know a few things:
print media is a dying medium
that in a deluge of information most people are lazy and only want their news in the most brief form as possible
that cable television is dying a slow and painful death which means their medium is being threatened.
Because their livelihood is jeopardized, it requires clever ways to keep people hooked. The easiest way is to give them their daily fix of rage porn at the expense of journalistic integrity.
Anyone wanna argue the point?
You do realize, I hope, that you're equally "geographically disconnected."
No, I am boots on the ground living it and experiencing it. I go into the black neighborhoods and physically speak with the residents while everyone else is relying on Don Lemon to tell them what they should be believing.
How do these support your position that Antifa is playing any meaningful role
Ask the residents of Portland and Seattle. They know it better than anyone else.
Not only that but there wasn't a single respected source among them, such as The BBC, The New Yorker, AP, Reuters, Bloomberg News, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, etc.
Your idea of a "respected outlet" is a medium that tells you what you want to hear through a series of confirmation biases. Every single one of those outlets have been exposed at one time or another pushing exploitative pieces that present fiction as fact. I'm not the one who thinks that mainstream media is the only verifiable way to retrieve data sets.
Bottom line: There is no actual evidence of widespread Antifa-caused unrest. They're a fringe group with little power or influence who no one here supports anyway. You're just buying Trump propaganda hook, line and sinker. I guess we know your "news source" now.
AZpaul is the only one here who openly supports them... at least he has the balls to admit it. I respect that more than the ones who deny their affiliation. Your silence on the subject regarding absolutely disgusting behavior is an inference to your tacit approval of it. Anyone with more than 5 brain cells knows that Antifa is the thug wing of the Left who are willing to do the wet work that the rest of the lefties have to officially distance themselves, while unofficially supporting anything that deconstructs the concept of Western Civilization.
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
Re: Jacob Blake handcuffed to his hospital bed ???
Hyroglyphx writes:
So the other alternative is have either the officer die or the offender be clubbed to death or stabbed to death by the officer’s own knife.
False dichotomy. Another alternative would be to check the person's wellness without violence. As I pointed out, mental health professionals do that every day.
If police go into any situation with a them-or-me attitude, then it's more likely that there will be violence.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
Father of two William Green was shot seven times in the back while handcuffed and sitting in a police cruiser by officer Michael A. Own Jr., resulting in his death. Prince George's County will pay Green's family $20 million, possibly the largest settlement ever for a murder by police. Both Green and Owen are black.
Re: Jacob Blake handcuffed to his hospital bed ???
Hyroglyphx writes:
Paralysed Jacob Blake 'handcuffed to hospital bed' For the love of god what is wrong with the police over there ?
Are the police doctors? Can they confirm with certainty that he is paralyzed? Is it possible to suffer temporary paralysis to later regain total or partial function? Yes. Is it possible to feign paralysis to escape? Yes, it is.
Blake had been shot seven times. Criminal and civil suits will take into account not only the shooting but also Blake's subsequent treatment. You know nothing of Kenosha, Wisconsin, police nor of Blake, yet you are automatically biased in favor of the police into believing the shooting was justified and that Blake, whose three sons were in the back seat of his SUV when he was shot, was both capable of flight and a flight risk. Way to be objective.
There was a prisoner a few years ago who was in custody at the Travis County Jail who threw himself down some stairs and faked as if he was paralyzed. Fooled everyone. The jail nurses, doctors,...
This is obvious bullshit. There are nerve points familiar to any medical professional that when tapped cause involuntary muscle contractions, the point just below the knee being familiar to everyone. The prisoner did not fool nurses and doctors. Why don't you put a name to your claim so we verify the veracity of your account. So far it's got all the credibility of one of Trump's, "Everyone's saying..."
So, tell me, what is so odious about handcuffing Jacob Blake that it requires your incredulous post?
Uh, he was shot seven times? You're beginning to sound like some kind of monster.
Re: Jacob Blake handcuffed to his hospital bed ???
False dichotomy. Another alternative would be to check the person's wellness without violence.
That's funny that you present a literal False Dichotomy while whining about a False Dilemma. Your scenario is either/or with no other possible alternative. Correlation =/= Causation
As I pointed out, mental health professionals do that every day. If police go into any situation with a them-or-me attitude, then it's more likely that there will be violence.
Oh, cool story, bro.... So you buy car insurance with the attitude that you will definitely get into an accident every time you drive, right? You only buckle your seatbelt because you know that you will definitely get into a crash today, right?
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
Now you're just pretending you made some claim that was supported by the video when it wasn't. Here once again is a still frame from that part of the video where in Message 503 you claim it shows Marquez pointing the gun at an officer on the staircase:
Hyroglyphx writes:
It only showed the vantage point of one officer. There was another on the staircase. Look again.
Where in this image do you see an officer on the staircase:
It's a simple question whose answer supports the fact that your claims are constantly full of blatant errors. You believe what you believe, and you'll claim whatever "facts" are necessary to support your beliefs without regard to reality.
Re: Jacob Blake handcuffed to his hospital bed ???
Hyroglyphx writes:
I see you've gone full Woketard which means there is absolutely no hope for you. We are the absolute furthest away from a "police state" the West has ever been. Its literally the exact opposite where lawlessness and chaos rules the day.
Wow, now you're going full Trump!
We are the closest we've ever been to becoming a police state with Trump and Barr threatening to take local law enforcement into their own hands and labeling primarily peaceful protests as anarchy.
Handcuffing a prisoner in a hospital where he is being treated for his injuries is the precise balance you speak of. If a prisoner would be denied access to healthcare -- that would be outrageous. There is nothing, whatsoever, outrageous about handcuffing a prisoner. Nothing. As to your plaintiff cries about innocence until proven guilty, as if to insinuate that the police only deal with malicious intent, do try to remember how the law functions.
With the wall of legal invulnerability of police gradually crumbling it would be in their best interest to behave with humanity after shooting someone seven times. Handcuffing someone shot seven times would be further evidence of denying their humanity.
Re: Jacob Blake handcuffed to his hospital bed ???
Blake had been shot seven times. Criminal and civil suits will take into account not only the shooting but also Blake's subsequent treatment. You know nothing of Kenosha, Wisconsin, police nor of Blake, yet you are automatically biased in favor of the police into believing the shooting was justified and that Blake, whose three sons were in the back seat of his SUV when he was shot, was both capable of flight and a flight risk. Way to be objective.
He had a warrant for his arrest. He had prior violence charges. Multiple means of non-lethal force were applied beforehand but failed. He failed to obey a lawful command while at gunpoint. He lunged into the car in such a manner that is akin to reaching for something, not sitting in the car. The shooting was at close range thereby not placing the children in any immediate danger. Maybe just the teensiest bit of onus on Blake? Whattya think?
This is obvious bullshit. There are nerve points familiar to any medical professional that when tapped cause involuntary muscle contractions, the point just below the knee being familiar to everyone. The prisoner did not fool nurses and doctors. Why don't you put a name to your claim so we verify the veracity of your account. So far it's got all the credibility of one of Trump's, "Everyone's saying..."
Obvious bullshit is not always so obvious. You probably should have just asked for me to corroborate it before immediately launching into accusation mode.
And before you ask about the "undisclosed condition," it would have been a HIPAA violation to release medical information to the media. He threw himself down a flight of stairs and feigned paralysis. The deputy failed to follow protocol, thinking paralyzed people can't run away.
Uh, he was shot seven times?
Yeah, and? People shot are still capable of presenting a threat. You shoot until they no longer present a threat.
You're beginning to sound like some kind of monster.
Some facts, however uncomfortable and unfortunate they may be, are nevertheless facts. It is what it is. Its one thing to continue to fire when somebody is still making furtive movements and its another to continue to fire into an obviously lifeless body. Which is reasonable and which is a situation of overkill?
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
You're still on your "bad apple" kick. The problem isn't bad apples. The problem is systemic. The problem is an environment that encourages the dehumanization of people not like the white majority
LOL, yeah okay... you read that in an article in Newsweek? What a vicious lie, Percy.
Police arrest disproportionate numbers of non-whites. Them's the facts.
If you honestly believe that a majority of police officers are doing whatever they can to dehumanize people that aren’t white, then the real issue is that you are exposed to only the most negative cases and never, ever the overwhelming number of cases that help people of all races without prejudice. This isn’t the Antebellum South.... if you feel this way then maybe it speaks more to your hang ups and implicit biases.
You are again putting your own words in my mouth, and since they're your words I guess it's more revealing about your own "hangups and implicit biases." Go back and read what I actually said.
Except that "all police officers" do not resent Derek Chauvin.
Really??? I’ve never met even one Chauvin apologist let alone heard of one. Are you referring to all of 6 people nationwide?
And BLM is getting increasing pushback from the paler portions of our citizenry.
LOL the overwhelming majority of BLM are disaffected white college suburb kids disconnected with reality! It’s a bunch of white losers pretending to play revolutionary cosplay
And what pushback are you referring to? Not wanting to be accosted in the street for existing? Upset that their family business of 40 years was burned down for being in the way?
You insist that racism among law enforcement is systemic while simultaneously implying that on a case by case basis we cannot know the individual motivations, but the peanut gallery, every time there is a critical incident involving white police officer(s) and a black subject is that it must have been racially motivated. That is a contradictory position to hold.
The "peanut gallery" position is not a position I hold - it's a position consistent with your own in that it implies an inability to understand statistics. I hold the position that societal and thereby also law enforcement racism is systemic.
So you think that if it weren't for CNN nobody would have ever heard of George Floyd? You think police misconduct isn't news?
No, I'm suggesting that CNN is in the business of manufacturing news instead of reporting on it. CNN, the absolute worse of the worst. They drive narratives that otherwise should be left to the observer to speculate on why something occurred.
In that case you weren't replying to anything I said. We weren't discussing CNN. You said the news media gives undeserved attention to white cops killing blacks, and I called it out for what it was, typical racist white grievance crap.
There are almost no media outlets remaining that objectively report news.
And this is typical right wing conspiracy theory nonsense.
You do realize, I hope, that you're equally "geographically disconnected."
No, I am boots on the ground living it and experiencing it. I go into the black neighborhoods and physically speak with the residents while everyone else is relying on Don Lemon to tell them what they should be believing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I never even heard of Don Lemon. Obviously the right wing media has taken over your mind.
How do these support your position that Antifa is playing any meaningful role
Ask the residents of Portland and Seattle. They know it better than anyone else.
You are again falling victim to right-wing nonsense that originates with Trump. Antifa is a small fringe group. Right-wing extremism is a far greater threat.
Not only that but there wasn't a single respected source among them, such as The BBC, The New Yorker, AP, Reuters, Bloomberg News, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, The Atlantic, etc.
Your idea of a "respected outlet" is a medium that tells you what you want to hear through a series of confirmation biases. Every single one of those outlets have been exposed at one time or another pushing exploitative pieces that present fiction as fact. I'm not the one who thinks that mainstream media is the only verifiable way to retrieve data sets.
So you prefer to get your news from sources like the state-run Turkish news outlet and British tabloids?
Re: Jacob Blake handcuffed to his hospital bed ???
Hyroglyphx writes:
Blake had been shot seven times. Criminal and civil suits will take into account not only the shooting but also Blake's subsequent treatment. You know nothing of Kenosha, Wisconsin, police nor of Blake, yet you are automatically biased in favor of the police into believing the shooting was justified and that Blake, whose three sons were in the back seat of his SUV when he was shot, was both capable of flight and a flight risk. Way to be objective.
He had a warrant for his arrest. He had prior violence charges. Multiple means of non-lethal force were applied beforehand but failed. He failed to obey a lawful command while at gunpoint. He lunged into the car in such a manner that is akin to reaching for something, not sitting in the car. The shooting was at close range thereby not placing the children in any immediate danger. Maybe just the teensiest bit of onus on Blake? Whattya think?
What do I think? I think you ignored my points and displayed extreme inhumanity. You are as "geographically disconnected" from Kenosha, Wisconsin, as I am. You are obviously okay with anything the police do to people they're pissed at.
This is obvious bullshit. There are nerve points familiar to any medical professional that when tapped cause involuntary muscle contractions, the point just below the knee being familiar to everyone. The prisoner did not fool nurses and doctors. Why don't you put a name to your claim so we verify the veracity of your account. So far it's got all the credibility of one of Trump's, "Everyone's saying..."
Obvious bullshit is not always so obvious. You probably should have just asked for me to corroborate it before immediately launching into accusation mode.
Are you drunk? There are reflex points such as below the knee that make faking paralysis with medical professionals impossible. You claimed he faked paralysis and fooled even nurses and doctors, and then you cited an article that says nothing about paralysis, nurses or doctors. What is the matter with you? You're not even trying to make sense.
And before you ask about the "undisclosed condition," it would have been a HIPAA violation to release medical information to the media. He threw himself down a flight of stairs and feigned paralysis. The deputy failed to follow protocol, thinking paralyzed people can't run away.
Please reread the article you cited and describe where it says anything about this guy being paralyzed. Here's what the relevant portion actually says:
quote:The man-hunt continues for 34-year-old Dacious June Parker, also known as Corey. He was supposed to be heading to prison for 20 years, instead, he’s free, after escaping from University Medical Center at Breckenridge, where he was being treated for an undisclosed condition.
He was just wanting to get away and waited for the opportune time for the officer not be there and bolted, said Roger Wade, senior public information officer with the Travis County Sheriff’s Office.
Wade says Parker ran from his room, un-handcuffed once a deputy stepped out for just a moment. He’s now asking the public to be cautious.
Got that? Nothing about paralysis, nurses or doctors. I assume next you'll claim you're privy to non-public information and that we should just trust you that this guy could control his nerve reflexes.
Uh, he was shot seven times?
Yeah, and? People shot are still capable of presenting a threat. You shoot until they no longer present a threat.
Well, yes, we know that when frightened that police tend to empty their weapons into the perceived threat. That's two reasons why most police shouldn't have guns: they too often perceive severe threats where little or none exist, and then they panic and keep firing until they're out of ammo.
You're beginning to sound like some kind of monster.
Some facts, however uncomfortable and unfortunate they may be, are nevertheless facts.
What facts? Everything you said was wrong, including what you said about your own article.
It is what it is. It's one thing to continue to fire when somebody is still making furtive movements and it's another to continue to fire into an obviously lifeless body. Which is reasonable and which is a situation of overkill?
Re: Jacob Blake handcuffed to his hospital bed ???
Hyroglyphx writes:
Your scenario is either/or with no other possible alternative.
Nonsense. I didn't present anything resembling a dichotomy.
Hyroglyphx writes:
So you buy car insurance with the attitude that you will definitely get into an accident every time you drive, right?
I buy car insurance because it's the law.
Hyroglyphx writes:
You only buckle your seatbelt because you know that you will definitely get into a crash today, right?
I buckle my seatbelt because it's the law.
There is no law that I know of that requires police officers to shoot the people whose wellness they are checking. So you're gonna need some better analogies.
"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
Police arrest disproportionate numbers of non-whites. Them's the facts.
Well, there is only 3 choices when it comes to explaining why that might be.
1. Minorities commit a disproportionate amount of crimes when compared to whites per capita. 2. That minorities are being systematically being framed for crimes committed by white people. 3. Some combination of both.
Asians represent a very small fraction of crime per capita and in terms of raw numbers. Is that because culturally there are very low incidences of crime or white police officers give Asians a pass?
You are again putting your own words in my mouth, and since they're your words I guess it's more revealing about your own "hangups and implicit biases." Go back and read what I actually said.
Okay, I read it. Now defend your implicit biases. Look, you're white and the fact of the matter is that you have implicit biases that are both etched into your DNA and that has been taught to you by cultural influence. The sooner that you accept it, the sooner we can move on.
I haven't "met" any either, but how about the head of the Minneapolis police union, of which Chauvin is a member.
Do you usually use extreme outliers and statistical anomalies to represent all or most police? The fact of the matter is that when it comes to the George Floyd case, there is as close to a near identical consensus as one could possibly get. A few of his buddies does not represent the majority opinion either among police officers or among the general public.
"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
Police arrest disproportionate numbers of non-whites. Them's the facts.
Well, there is only 3 choices when it comes to explaining why that might be.
1. Minorities commit a disproportionate amount of crimes when compared to whites per capita. 2. That minorities are being systematically being framed for crimes committed by white people. 3. Some combination of both.
Your list is incomplete, you forgot systemic racism.
You are again putting your own words in my mouth, and since they're your words I guess it's more revealing about your own "hangups and implicit biases." Go back and read what I actually said.
Okay, I read it. Now defend your implicit biases. Look, you're white and the fact of the matter is that you have implicit biases that are both etched into your DNA and that has been taught to you by cultural influence. The sooner that you accept it, the sooner we can move on.
So *I* have implicit biases, but police officers don't?
I haven't "met" any either, but how about the head of the Minneapolis police union, of which Chauvin is a member.
Do you usually use extreme outliers and statistical anomalies to represent all or most police? The fact of the matter is that when it comes to the George Floyd case, there is as close to a near identical consensus as one could possibly get. A few of his buddies does not represent the majority opinion either among police officers or among the general public.
You are again putting words in my mouth. I did not say that the head of the Minneapolis police union represented all or most police. You implied there were extremely few defenders of Derek Chauvin, so I named a very significant one. And here's an article about Facebook removing groups supporting Chauvin: Inside Facebook Groups that Support Derek Chauvin
Why don't you reply to my actual position? I believe there is systemic societal racism in this country. You, me and the police are all members of this society. It will take hard work to a) protect the subjects of societal racism from it; b) eliminate societal racism.
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