AntiGod education should not be compulsary (even for non wealthy)

(about the majority believing in US)..fine, you are free to maintain your minority position, of course, as you wish. You are welcome to argue that as well, of course attempted refutation, yes, based on widely accepted belief in old age assumptions based aspects of science. But, to paraphrase Mark Twain, 'the rumours of it's death have been greatly exagerated!' Why, does the state there fit the bill on the child stealing score? Anyhow, I don't know that much about that particular country, except that the women are pretty. If it is very pure, and uncorrupt though, congratulations, most countries are not quite perfect. Of course not! That is why creation science is growing. And that is why the falsely called science that omits the creator must decrease. Bully for you. If I were teaching evolution, I would certainlt reccomend people follow that advice much more than has happened (at least outside your country).

But why include any Creator in science? It does not even touch the subject, and that's how it should be.Why not bring up the Creator in religion classes instead?If God has no effect on newtonian mechanics, for example, why would you even mention him? Are you saying that non-Christians are unable to comprehend science?And could you please tell me what your view on Creationism is? Old? New? Through evolution? Appearing old?Sidenote: Rather wierd to put me in a minority when I'm not even in the test group.

Science is a very big area, and understanding really almost any of it properly, would include a creator. If the parts of science you have been familiar with don't even touch on where it all came from, and Who made everything, then you maybe need to broaden your horizons. You could say education in general does not even touch on God either. If so, it would be out of touch! How can History be understood, if you miss the Designer behind the design? How can art be learned without knowing about the One who made beauty? And the same in music, math, or just about anything, who made the rules? To suggest that the only knowledge that should be allowed, or science, is that which utterly devoids itself of the Good, is selective deception. To this honored position of near irrelavancy, belief in alternative theories of orgins (evolution), and an accidental universe would best be suited. My view is of it happening just the way God said it happened. I guess you personally as I were not in the poll. Now if we polled Europe, as to whether they believe or not, your opinion may be of a more popular flavour. And if we polled the muslims, they might be overwhelmingly numbered with a belief in creation. And on we could go, South America, etc. Since a lot of the conversation in this area of the forum was touching creation taught in the US, I included a poll to put in perspective the big picture there. In that context the opinion you expressed was a minority one. From the way you talk about creation and science, I get the impression Sweden would have a majority who would agree with you. I don't.

Exactly, hence science should be taught in science class, and religion should be taught in religion class, and they can both work together when it comes to forming a view on how the world *really* works.You seem to have some issues with the revealed facts of our origin, and to that I can only respond that I do not think reality, or God for that matter, care about what you want the world to be like. Evolution is not alternative; it's the best model we have at the moment, given the facts we have observed.

Yes. I believe in them implicitly. Apparently you have some misconception of revealed facts. What I want doesn't matter much, what you want doesn't matter much. God has a written record, so I don't need my or your opinion of what He thinks happened, it's as plain as the nose on your face. You don't have a monopoly on science, or knowledge, or God. Theres lots of facts out there, and some choose to interpret them as self creating accidents. The very idea of such philosophy, people of faith the world over find stinky. Even more odorous however, is the 'I am as God' attitude that the adherants of this neutered nitwit nonsense nurture.

14gipper,One of the Creator's more problematic statements concerns His role in deluding those "who did not receive the love of the truth." Basically, along with His creation of us and everything came a plan for dealing with what was created. That plan includes one for training children, as a part of loving the truth. Those who reject that plan, the Lord says He insists on deluding.The plan for training children is to do it with parents as teachers, at home and work, with a curriculum centered on the His laws. Teach when you sit down, get up, walk here and there, when you go to bed. Send your children to any school, and God says that He will send on you and your children a spirit of delusion. Godless evolution, for example. So you and they will believe the lie.Most people, remember, are enemies of God. They are friends of the world, born as slaves of sin, trained from before birth to destroy themselves, His creation and His people. Those that get born again are different, but they are few. God is like all of us. We hope our enemies will go away, die off, be neutralized. So does He. So, He corrupts schools, causing them to train up children to be impotent, reproductively fruitless, drugged, stupid. He wants as many as will to be "born again" of course, but is realistic about the prospects of that happening.He tells me to leave the schools and the abortion clinics alone. The only persons being damaged there are hopelessly lost anyway. Adopt an orphan, and teach them as a father what you are demonstrating here, how to use authority, art, science, and history, to know the truth about God and His creation. Let those who have used their free will to choose death get what they have chosen, in peace. You might change God's mind about His agenda of deluding the schooled, but not through arguments here.Stephen

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That plan includes one for training children, as a part of loving the truth. Those who reject that plan, the Lord says He insists on deluding.

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Why would God want to "delude" anyone? Wouldn't He feel a compelling need to help everyone, deluded or otherwise? What about the incapacitated - or anyone who is not "deluded" by choice?

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Send your children to any school, and God says that He will send on you and your children a spirit of delusion.

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God said this? Bible verse, please. Something specific about public schools and delusion in the verse would be required.

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Godless evolution, for example. So you and they will believe the lie.

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What about those who believe in both God and evolution? Are we okay, then?

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Most people, remember, are enemies of God. They are friends of the world, born as slaves of sin, trained from before birth to destroy themselves, His creation and His people. Those that get born again are different, but they are few. God is like all of us.

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So he has feelings of hatred and despise for our enemies? He wishes His enemies to "die off"? Doesn't sound like the loving God I know.

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We hope our enemies will go away, die off, be neutralized. So does He.

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Again, this doesn't sound like the God I know. I always knew God to "love thy enemies", and "turn the other cheek." What kind of Bible are you reading?

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So, He corrupts schools, causing them to train up children to be impotent, reproductively fruitless

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I know a couple of fundamentalist Christians who were impotent, yet they were home-schooled. What happened?I also tend to know of some billions of people around the world who were educated in the public school system, yet they seemed to be able to "get it on" and pop out kids quite well. What happened?

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drugged, stupid.

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I can't really comment on this. Judging by the majority of your imbecilic comments posted here with no evidence to support your assertions, this really seems no different. So I'll just let it stand out there on it's own, much like the majority of your commentary.

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He wants as many as will to be "born again" of course, but is realistic about the prospects of that happening.

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At least Someone is realistic here, and it hardly seems to be you in this case.

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He tells me to leave the schools and the abortion clinics alone.

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Well thank God for that. Now could you tell your other bretheren who've bombed health clinics and murdered doctors to do the same? Thanks.And I am truly relieved you are not in the same schools as I would be sending my children. Lawrence public schools certainly have enough problems on their own.

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The only persons being damaged there are hopelessly lost anyway.

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Wow. All I can say is Wow. So nothing else shy of private religious schools and home schooling will help save these "hopelessly lost" souls? Now I'm really glad you're not in the Lawrence public school system.

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Adopt an orphan

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The only thing I would agree with you on. Sure glad there's something we see eye on something.

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and teach them as a father what you are demonstrating here, how to use authority, art, science, and history, to know the truth about God and His creation.

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Wait, change my last statement. If we should teach adopted children (or any child for that matter) that farts release demons, then I think we may want to consider alternative teaching methods. Perhaps those methods as evidenced in public schools?

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Let those who have used their free will to choose death get what they have chosen, in peace.

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Thanks, bub. At least you're a peaceful bigot.

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You might change God's mind about His agenda of deluding the schooled, but not through arguments here.

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I know. These people that use logic and reason really scare the crap out of me too! Run, run while you still can!!! Flee o' strange one, and take the flying purple elephants, pink unicorns, the farting demons, and the giant Stay Puff Marshmallow Man with you!!!!!!

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What I want doesn't matter much, what you want doesn't matter much. God has a written record, so I don't need my or your opinion of what He thinks happened, it's as plain as the nose on your face. You don't have a monopoly on science, or knowledge, or God. Theres lots of facts out there, and some choose to interpret them as self creating accidents. The very idea of such philosophy, people of faith the world over find stinky. Even more odorous however, is the 'I am as God' attitude that the adherants of this neutered nitwit nonsense nurture.

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So you believe that for some undetailed reason rock dating, strata examination and other observations are not natural and the events they describe has never occured, yet they have taken the forms they have?Evolution does not say God didn't create life. In fact, there are many faithful people who argue for God as the designer of the laws and effects in our universe just to get it suitable for our life. The existance or non-existance of God is not part of the model of Evolution.

Hmm, I wonder if you are serious? Sounds kinda callous to me. I think you are suggesting all people who post here must be beyond hope. I guess we can take it as a vote for creation.

Well, my rock dating is fine, it's those who come up with old dates I question. As far as 'natural' or not, all these dead things in the rocks and strata may not have died as natural a death as some people think. As far as "other observations" as long as they do not assume evolution, some of them may be honky dorey.

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As far as "other observations" as long as they do not assume evolution, some of them may be honky dorey.

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So you would agree with astronomers that the universe is billions of years old? They do not use evolutionary theories to explain their data, afterall. If not, there are a few threads on this site that deal with non-evolutionary methods of dating our solar system and the universe as a whole.

14gipper, As serious as I can be. I admire your insight into the debate here, but sense it might profit from my own attempts to understand what God is really up to, and wants changed to make things better. Callous would be that God and us, while allowing those who choose evil and death to get what they have chosen, would not grieve over the consequences. This is not the case. But grieving and acting to change those consequences are different. Especially when the action is largely futile and even confused. Of course we live in a created world--every respectable epistemology that I know of reaches that realization. I suppose some evolution has occurred as well, and the theory of evolution has taught us a great deal about how God created. But, to look at this process as God-less, as natural instead of artificial selection, as random mutation instead of genetic engineering, thus discrediting God's creative genius in the process, is as you argue, indecent. Highly agenda-ed.A lot of those who post here are more hopeful than those who are vegging out mentally. Hot or cold is better than luke-warm.My agenda is the love of truth, the study and application of methods for judging debates and deciding controversies. Evolutionists usually, in my experience, misrepresent science, creationists misrepresent God. Study the scientific method, and evolution, in my experience, pales in plausibility. Study God, and most items on the creationist's agenda are fallacious. Like making schools better. If creationism is true, no way would God want it taught in schools, which He has created to delude.Stephen

In your post I can't find a single reference to Jesus as the Saviour, yes, Saviour, that's S..A..V..I..O..U..R, you know the guy God sent to pay for ALL our sins. Where does he fit into this picture you have of a God who turns his back on those that YOU consider not worth saving? Surely if they're good enough for Jesus to save, then you're being more than a tad arrogant in saying that Jesus is wrong, that people aren't worth saving?As somebody above said, the God you describe bears no resemblance to the loving God of the New Testament that I know, that millions know. Oh, by the way, I'm not judging you, I'm just commenting. You can't begin to understand why I am soooooo glad that your "version" of God won't be taught to my child in science class and if for a minute I thought he would be taught about your God in a religious education class, I would withdraw him from it on the basis that I don't want him brought up to be an arrogant bigot. Nuff said!

Trixie,Yes, indeed, Yeshua or Jesus has indeed paid the price for everyone's sin, and any and every one who so choses can walk away from death and destruction. Moreover, any that do make that choice, for life and truth, whatever "theology" they espouse, whatever they know or don't know about what Jesus did for them, the "sin" associated with their ignorance is redeemed and does not kill them. But life for humans involves free will, and the first thing Yeshua bought for us all is the choice, the freedom. Those who take that freedom, and stay in or walk back into spiritual captivity, in this case, denial, are still free to do so, which means that they get what they are asking for, the consequences of that choice, which is death, delusion, whatever we are told are the consequences of certain behaviors. "Behold the goodness and severity of God."You know the history, Trixie. People want freedom more than anything, and do not want to be forced into loving God, or avoiding evil. The devil sets out his temptations, they like what is offered and run away from any effort to tell them that they are being had. The Thessalonian verses that tell how God Himself sends out the spirit of delusion to those who will not "love the truth." are in the NT. I'm warning as many as I can that schools are bad epistemology, according to God, and that choosing to let schools be one's way of learning the truth is basically hating the truth. At least, it is if you know anything about God. But, people are free to shake their heads, and write the prophet off, because schools are convenient, or something. Instead of searching out the truth of the matter, loving the truth, they rationalize the schooling option. It's a fatal choice, not getting to the truth of the matter. Not learning how to get to the truth of the matter. And God sadly shakes His head, but can do nothing without taking away their choice. And so, He lets them go.I didn't write the book, Trixie, I only read it and asked it's reputed Author to explain difficult verses. That's good epistemology, that's loving the truth. Did I like what I learned? Of course not. But changing one's mind when we discover that "our ways are not God's ways" is highly recommended, so I did. Millions do have a different view of God, and their life has little to commend it.Peace.Stephen

I remind all, that this is a "Education and Creation/Evolution" topic. The topic title is "AntiGod education should not be compulsary (even for non wealthy)".Also, we are coming up on 300 messages for this topic. This 300 message total is one where we make it standard procedure, to close the topic down.Closing remarks time?Adminnemooseus

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