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Author | Topic: Ed Braytons Eulogy & Reflections About Purpose | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
R,I,P.
I was inspired to start this topic after reviewing Tangle and ICANTs exchange and after reading Ed Braytons Eulogy. The wheels just clicked.
ICANT writes:
You said the universe created itself.Tangle writes:
Dr.John Lennox is a mathematician and does understand the high level arguments. I will quote him some here.
I said that Hawking and others believes that the universe creates itself. Like you, I haven't a clue. The only way either of us can understand this high level cosmology is by having the same level of mathematical understanding as they have - or something close to it. I don't have it and neither do you. ICANT writes: Oh I think if you could explain how the universe could create itself I could understand it. Tangle writes: Odd phrase, that. One side sees the universe has a purposeful creation. The other side sees chaos theory, randomness and life as we know it essentially arising from nothing and expanding to everything literally as a chance event.
Hawking published his work you know - and I don't mean his popular science books, I mean his hard research, if you really want to know about it, go read it and show where he's wrong. Good luck with that. Tangle, to ICANT writes: No, and he is fair game for my refutations also.
All I'm doing here is pointing out that you are a liar when you continue to say that Hawking believed in a creator. Also Krauss
quote: A Universe from Nothing - Wikipedia Krauss is as rabid an atheist as I am, does he believe in a creator too? Attempting to recruit celebrity cosmologists into your belief system that don't share your beliefs at all is dishonest and you know it. Not sure that ICANT or Christians in general are being dishonest at all. ICANT may not fully understand the science, but he has every right to attempt to use Hawkings work to support his own claims. Next, Ed Braytons last Column: quote: Lets discuss this. Edited by Phat, : No reason given. Edited by Phat, : added photo Edited by Phat, : eliminated excess wordiness..will discuss as thread unfolds"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
It's not at all clear what you want to discuss.
In case you didn't notice, Ed Brayton died a few days after that post.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
nwr writes: It's not at all clear what you want to discuss.In case you didn't notice, Ed Brayton died a few days after that post. I'm glad you said that, I don't know what he wants to discuss either.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I did notice, and would like to emphasize that I respect the mans passing and was impressed with his self written eulogy. He knew he was going to die. Thanks to our very own Moose, I was inspired to click on the link and learned a great deal about how many of you think as opposed to how the Christians think. Tangle always insists that I dont understand how atheists(at least Tangle) think and so seeks to instruct me and attempt to school me, which I am thankful for.
In this topic, I want to discuss Ed Braytons worldviews, the worldview of secular humanism in general and how it contrasts with the Christian worldview which I attempt to push. I have respect for the man just by reading his eulogy and seeing how empathetic he was towards his fellow humans. So in that measure of respect, I started this topic to showcase some of the distinctions."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Phat writes: In this topic, I want to discuss Ed Braytons worldviews, the worldview of secular humanism in general and how it contrasts with the Christian worldview Secular humanism is Christianity without all the religious bollox. Surely you've come across this before?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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Phat writes: In this topic, I want to discuss Ed Braytons worldviews, the worldview of secular humanism in general and how it contrasts with the Christian worldview which I attempt to push. I have respect for the man just by reading his eulogy and seeing how empathetic he was towards his fellow humans. I'm not going to attempt to speak for Ed Brayton, I don't know much of anything about him. But, in general, I've always thought (reduced to extremely short sentences): Worldview of Christians: "Following God is the best way to live life. God is love."Worldview of Secular Humanists: "Following Love is the best way to live life." It seems to me that the two are, in a practical-sense, the same thing.The Christians just add this "God" figure on top of it. And then cause a lot of drama about the God figure. Removing focus from the Love part. Secular Humanists don't include the God figure, so there's no extra drama from that... and focus on the Love part. Because that's the only part.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
In this topic, I want to discuss Ed Braytons worldviews, the worldview of secular humanism in general and how it contrasts with the Christian worldview which I attempt to push.
I don't know what were Ed's worldviews. He may have denied that he had any. For that matter, I don't know if I am a secular humanist. I've never given much thought to that. But I did mostly agree with Ed Brayton's views. I've been following his blog for a long time. I guess I would say that Tangle and Stile have it about right. Secular humanism amounts to Christianity without the rituals, without the creeds, without the pretenses and without the hypocrisy. Just try to be a decent human being.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
I want to discuss Ed Braytons worldviews, the worldview of secular humanism in general and how it contrasts with the Christian worldview which I attempt to push This seems to be your only point of interest in life... Kind of odd that you are presenting it as if this has never been discussed before. via GIPHY Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given."Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I have a varied life and I assure you that apologetic's is not my only interest. My life does center around Jesus Christ, however. Without Him, this life would have no true meaning. Many of you do not understand this, mock it, or are saddened by what you see as a narrow and archaic world view. The fact is, Christianity would never have caught on had it simply been a vehicle for Global conquest and exclusivity. The Resurrection is a key concept, not only in regards to personal and societal regeneration, but as a world view which challenges Materialistic Naturalism.
Tangle writes: Indeed I have, and moreso recently. I am unafraid to think and do research from a wide variety of learned opinions. Perhaps my only real flaw (from y'alls standpoint) is that I do not seek to disprove but rather validate what I already believe. Nevertheless, I do investigate claims from different sources besides Apologists and Theologians. You won't find many other believers who do that. My first question to you Tangle is this: Secular humanism is Christianity without all the religious bollox. Surely you've come across this before?Who is Sorenson? You may start with why you adapted his worldview as most closely mirroring your own...after you tell me who he is/was? Anyway, allow me to get this topic going.
Secular Humanism Defined Several points in regards to Secular Humanism that differentiate it from Christianity.
quote: "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Phat writes: Who is Sorenson? You may start with why you adapted his worldview as most closely mirroring your own...after you tell me who he is/was? Other than he's a philosopher I've no idea who he is, he's just someone who wrote what I quoted and it seemed as good as anything I've seen on the subject of creation. It's not a world view.
Several points in regards to Secular Humanism that differentiate it from Christianity. All of which is just a long-winded way of saying Christianity without the distraction and waste of theology. (Atheists have values, who knew?)Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Not a fact. The fact is, Christianity would never have caught on had it simply been a vehicle for Global conquest and exclusivity."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Say what you want. You state that God is a myth anyway, so I'm not going to entertain any naturalistic evidence based argument from you. You are quite good at denying the Creator, but not so good at explaining what thought process led you to back off of the correct answer.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Note the last sentence:
quote:. Your atheism is nothing special in and of itself. The question that I would ask, however, is whether you consider yourself a secular humanist. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
nwr writes: Sounds pretty simple. I seriously doubt whether any Secular Humanists would get in much trouble with the Big Guy if He ultimately DID exist...based on your statement. I don't know what were Ed's worldviews. He may have denied that he had any.For that matter, I don't know if I am a secular humanist. I've never given much thought to that. But I did mostly agree with Ed Brayton's views. I've been following his blog for a long time. I guess I would say that Tangle and Stile have it about right. Secular humanism amounts to Christianity without the rituals, without the creeds, without the pretenses and without the hypocrisy. Just try to be a decent human being. But let me begin to read some of what Ed Brayton blogged so that I can include him in the conversation.( posthumously, of course. )
Ed Brayton was a civil libertarian blogger and former comedian who wrote at Dispatches from the Culture Wars. He specialized in civil rights issues, particularly police misconduct, education policy, and transparency in government. He also had a soft spot for crazy ideologues, namely Joseph Farah and his menagerie. Brayton's blog was the main ScienceBlogs political journal, but after National Geographic acquired the network, he founded Freethought Blogs together with a few other bloggers, including PZ Myers, and moved his main blogging activities there. In August 2015, he moved his blog once again, to Patheos. Brayton and Myers were the two main founders of the Freethought Blogs collective. Though Ed and his readers had a brief feud with PZ Myers and his readers some time ago (mainly over framing issues), the hatchet has long since been buried in some concern troll's skull. Brayton and Myers agree the freethought movement should not be dominated by aging white men like themselves. Both strongly support the view that Freethought Blogs should provide a platform for others, notably sex positive feminists. Brayton is willing to accept some controversy to achieve this.[1] Also of interest to EvC Forum:
According to Ed Brayton, the critical analysis of evolution is the fourth stage in the development of the anti-evolution movement in schools, which he believes to be the creationism du jour following the failure of intelligent design in Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District. The first stage was censorship of evolution in schools (e.g., the Butler Act), the second stage Creation Science, and the third stage Intelligent Design. No wonder you guys liked to read Eds Blog so much. He addresses some of the same issues that are addressed here at the Forum. Edited by Phat, : added features "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Phat writes: Your atheism is nothing special in and of itself. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but maybe you're beginning to get it. Atheism is an absence - it's not a thing.
The question that I would ask, however, is whether you consider yourself a secular humanist. Probably, by default. I'm not much of a joiner of things.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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