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Author Topic:   Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1305 of 1498 (876934)
05-30-2020 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1304 by dad
05-30-2020 1:01 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:
I explained why using a preset belief (a same nature in the far past on earth) inevitably would yield similar wrong results across the board.
The only "preset belief" here is yours.
And you didn't come anywhere near "explaining" how completely independent methods could come up with exactly the same results.
dad writes:
Deal with it.
You're the one who is trying to deal with hundreds of years of science done by thousands of scientists. Maybe you can fool yourself but you're not fooling anybody else.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1304 by dad, posted 05-30-2020 1:01 PM dad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1308 by dad, posted 05-30-2020 5:12 PM ringo has replied
 Message 1322 by dad, posted 06-19-2020 2:22 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1312 of 1498 (876962)
05-31-2020 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1308 by dad
05-30-2020 5:12 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:
So remember never ever ever to call it science.
You don't get to define science.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1308 by dad, posted 05-30-2020 5:12 PM dad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1314 by dad, posted 06-01-2020 3:25 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1320 of 1498 (877008)
06-01-2020 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1314 by dad
06-01-2020 3:25 AM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:
Nor do you get to use beliefs as a definition for science.
I get to use whatever definition the scientists use - and they do not use one that has anything to do with belief.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1314 by dad, posted 06-01-2020 3:25 AM dad has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1324 of 1498 (877611)
06-19-2020 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1322 by dad
06-19-2020 2:22 AM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:
When you believe nature on earth was the same in the past you use a preset belief.
It's a default. When we observe that horses in the present have four legs, we can reasonably conclude (not "assume" or "believe") that Napoleon's horse had four legs. If you claim that Marengo was a spider-horse, the onus is on you to provide evidence.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1322 by dad, posted 06-19-2020 2:22 AM dad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1325 by dad, posted 06-21-2020 11:57 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1330 of 1498 (877750)
06-21-2020 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1325 by dad
06-21-2020 11:57 AM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:
I see. A default belief.
No. A default conclusion. Wherever there's a question there's a default answer. If I ask, "Do you want some ice cream?" the default answer is, "No." If you don't say so, you're not getting any.
dad writes:
Do you claim beliefs default or otherwise are science?
It has nothing to do with what I claim. You could find out what science is by just looking it up.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1325 by dad, posted 06-21-2020 11:57 AM dad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1333 by dad, posted 06-21-2020 2:46 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1337 of 1498 (877788)
06-21-2020 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1333 by dad
06-21-2020 2:46 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:
When a question is asked about the unknown the real default is 'I don't know'.
That default wouldn't be very useful. Science has to have something to start from. Call it a hypothesis if you prefer. In any case, we can not start by proposing that conditions were somehow different in the past.
dad writes:
The conclusion based on beliefs is not knowledge, fact or real science.
It isn't based on belief. It's based on the facts as we know them today. It's your belief that conditions were somehow different in the past, though you have no facts to support that belief. Hence, it is your position that is not science.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1333 by dad, posted 06-21-2020 2:46 PM dad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1339 by dad, posted 06-21-2020 11:52 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1343 of 1498 (877824)
06-22-2020 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1339 by dad
06-21-2020 11:52 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:
If you claim that a same nature on the earth is fact based then go ahead and show us the facts.
You have it backwards. If you think something has changed, you are the one who has to back up your idea with facts. If you think horses had eight legs in Napoleon's day, you are the one who has to back up that claim. As long as we have no evidence of a change, the rational conclusion is that horses have always had four legs.
dad writes:
Instead we see a desperate attempt to shift the burden of proof.
Yes indeed, you are trying to shift the burden of proof. You're not fooling anybody.
dad writes:
There is no useful application for origin claims of science.
Tell that to a petroleum engineer. They get along pretty well working with the idea that those rocks are old.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1339 by dad, posted 06-21-2020 11:52 PM dad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1346 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 4:04 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1365 of 1498 (878352)
06-29-2020 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1346 by dad
06-28-2020 4:04 PM


Re: Your problem: no correlations should exist
dad writes:
If you claim anything as science you need real evidence and support.
Yes, that's what I've been telling you. If YOU claim that something happened in the past - e.g. that nature somehow changed - then YOU need to provide evidence that nature changed. Unless YOU can show evidence that nature changed, WE go with the conclusion that nature didn't change.
dad writes:
If I claim we do not know, I am off the hook.
You can claim that YOU don't know. You can not claim that WE don't know.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1346 by dad, posted 06-28-2020 4:04 PM dad has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1431 of 1498 (879371)
07-15-2020 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1428 by dad
07-15-2020 11:45 AM


Re: pitter patter time to splatter
dad writes:
You would need to show that any claims of science you make consist of more than beliefs splattered onto evidences.
As I have pointed out, people with different beliefs can accept the same science. Even though the Bible portrays a young earth, most Christians accept the fact that the earth is old. They put the science before their beliefs. And even though Hinduism portrays an earth much older than it really is, most Hindus put the science ahead of their beliefs.
YOU need to show how people with very different religious beliefs can coincidentally have the same "beliefs" about science.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1428 by dad, posted 07-15-2020 11:45 AM dad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1433 by dad, posted 07-15-2020 2:30 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1440 of 1498 (879428)
07-16-2020 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1433 by dad
07-15-2020 2:30 PM


Re: pitter patter time to splatter
dad writes:
People can put their beliefs aside and give the beliefs of so called science priority. That does not mean the fables of origins science preaches are anything else but the belief based baloney they are.
You're just repeating yourself. Unless you can show HOW people with different beliefs can come from so many different directions and coincidentally happen on the same conclusions about science, you have no leg to stand on.
Edited by ringo, : Fixed quote.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1433 by dad, posted 07-15-2020 2:30 PM dad has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1460 of 1498 (879579)
07-18-2020 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1458 by dad
07-18-2020 11:56 AM


Re: boo hoo
dad writes:
Science cannot date a spirit, or correlate their ages. They cannot say they exist or do not exist!
That same logic would apply to leprechauns or orcs.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1458 by dad, posted 07-18-2020 11:56 AM dad has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1461 by Coragyps, posted 07-18-2020 1:55 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
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