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Author | Topic: 3 Theories Of Everything by Ellis Potter | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 668 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That would look good on your bumper. Here is an example of his thinking:God alone is God but God is not alone "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 668 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Philosophical mumbo-jumbo, too long for a bumper sticker. Except that Ellis would argue that within the concept of monism one could claim scientism but that this limits the concept to an absolute. If Potter has any arguments of value, bring them here in your own words."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 668 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Sure, Long John Silver has an existence outside the book. Y'know, that whole Arr! thing that people attribute to all pirates was originated by Robert Newton in the 1950 movie. You should see him in some of his other movies like Jamaica Inn. the characters exist apart from and outside of the book. But I don't pretend to be "in communion" with either Long John Silver or Robert Newton."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 668 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Exactly. Thoughts and experiences. Maybe even based on a real person. But NOT living today.
Long John Silver may have evolved from thoughts and experiences far deeper than his character in the book actually hinted at. Phat writes:
Are you? Put it in your own words so we can see what YOU think it means. You seem to adhere to this world view... ... Am I close?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 668 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
I'd rather have you explain Potter's arguments like I asked.
I've heard your arguments enough that I think I can mimic them to a degree. Phat writes:
Well of course there isn't a cosmic battle any more than there's one magic ring that rules them all. I don't see that as a worldview. It's just common sense that anybody with any worldview should be able to see.
... if we could fit you (ringo,Tangle, and perhaps AZPaul3) into a category. In that there is a singular reality and not a dualistic cosmic battle.... Phat writes:
It isn't about skipping belief. It's about realizing that belief is a last-ditch copout when you just can't bring yourself to admit that you don't know. You guys essentially skip belief all together---"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 668 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Let's not forget that "the body of believers on the planet" don't all believe the same things you believe. There are Hindus, Mormons, etc. who all believe as fervently as you do and all have "experiences" as convincing as yours - and YOU think THEIR beliefs are made-up nonsense. Lets just say then for the sake of argument that the body of believers on the planet makes up their own characters and passes them around to each other as a collective mythos. You actually reason the same way as atheists do. The only difference is that you hang on to one set of made-up nonsense."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 668 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You can reject gravity for all I care. Until you have something to back up your rejection, you're just blowing smoke.
I reject your notion that all beliefs are relative and equally valid. Phat writes:
That isn't "stuck". I'm one step ahead of YOU because I at least have a POSSIBILITY of learning something. YOU are stuck with having to reject what we do learn if it denies your dogma.
You may have rejected one God more than I have, but you are then stuck explaining the WHY and the HOW of where this universe came from and whether or not we humans collectively or specifically exclusively are going anywhere. Phat writes:
I didn't. Why don't you read what I wrote?
Why must you always place Jesus last? Phat writes:
You have it backwards, as usual. It isn't "His messsge." It's an eternal message that He happened to understand.
You seem to have His incarnate message higher up on your list, which is a good thing... Phat writes:
1. I have no desire to make it off the planet. You humanists will never make it off of the planet without standing for something. 2. I do stand for something: humanity."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 668 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
So am I but my comfort level has nothing to do with what's true. Personally I am much more comfortable with the idea of a Creator of all seen and unseen than I am with Quantum mechanics and Physics trying to configure an objective truth concerning the origin of the universe."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 668 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You yourself haven't taken any "leap of faith". You've stuck with the fairy tales that you learned as a child. A leap of faith would be to discard them and start fresh. Try a whole new set of fairy tales. Become a Raelian. I see no desire to take any leaps of faith on your part."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 668 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So have I. Only I call it "unknown".
I have experienced the supernatural. Phat writes:
And yet I did. Once you have such an observational and/or participatory encounter you can never again go back to square one."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 668 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
All birds leave home. Its a bit like a bird leaving the nest. Why leave home?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 668 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's a ridiculous concept. In any case, it isn't God who's leaving home, so if He did have a home it would be irrelevant to the metaphor. You are not understanding the metaphor. Where is "home" to God?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 668 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Well, of course. Growing up is about cutting the apron-strings mentally.
The point is that Gods "home" is everywhere so we really never leave the nest unless we do so mentally.Phat writes:
You might also assert that leaving your mommy is unnecessary but that doesn't mean it's a desirable situation. Which I would argue is UN-necessary."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 668 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So you claim but you've never been able to back it up. Humans were never meant to be independent from God."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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