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Author Topic:   Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1
dad
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1402 of 1498 (879045)
07-10-2020 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1400 by JonF
07-10-2020 11:52 AM


Re: Lay it on the table
quote:
They took samples for carbon dating throughout the whole sequence. How else could they make a graph of ring counting age versus carbon dating age?
Where in the sequences? You are not being clear. Just admit you don't know. How many samples from what part of each tree sequence was taken for carbon tests?
quote:
Radiocarbon dating, as of now, dates samples to within a few decades using a calibration curve made up of groups of ten tree rings plotted as series of single points on a graph. The points represent an average amount of radiocarbon present in those rings
Ten rings from what tree where and when? Is this in that particular study you posted a graph for? Are you claiming here that they took thousands of carbon samples every ten rings deep for all the trees!?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1400 by JonF, posted 07-10-2020 11:52 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1409 by JonF, posted 07-11-2020 3:54 PM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1403 of 1498 (879047)
07-10-2020 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1401 by JonF
07-10-2020 12:19 PM


Re: missing rings
quote:
When dendrochronologists assemble a sequence, they do not estimate anything. They try to get as many trees as possible that overlap at each point in time. I've done some research on this green line:
No cabin has rings from Noah's time I would guess. You seem to be arguing a generality here and not specific to the time in question say about 4500 or 5000 years ago.
If you claim samples from this time exist, that were specifically carbon dated in this sequence area then show the sample. Let's zoom in on the facts. Otherwise none of this supports your claim of a same nature in the past.
No one is debating whether a yearly cycle exists and whether we can date things. The issue is that it only woks in this nature where trees grow at the rates they now do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1401 by JonF, posted 07-10-2020 12:19 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1404 by AZPaul3, posted 07-10-2020 3:00 PM dad has replied
 Message 1410 by JonF, posted 07-11-2020 4:07 PM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1405 of 1498 (879075)
07-11-2020 2:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1404 by AZPaul3
07-10-2020 3:00 PM


Re: missing rings
quote:
There is no other nature
Of course not. However the question is WAS there in the past, and do we know?
quote:
Without evidence of this other nature having existed in the past then there is no reason to hypothesize that it did.
Without evidence of your same nature having existed in the past then there is no reason to hypothesize that it did.
Do you have evidence? If so post it. If not then we do not know the tree growth rate in the past.
Edited by dad, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1404 by AZPaul3, posted 07-10-2020 3:00 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1406 by AZPaul3, posted 07-11-2020 3:05 AM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1411 of 1498 (879154)
07-12-2020 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1406 by AZPaul3
07-11-2020 3:05 AM


Re: missing rings
quote:
The passage of time, the decay of radioactive elements, the growth of trees, is all the same today as they were 10,000, 10 million, 4.5 billion and 13.75 billion years ago.
All time passing is time on earth, and the area of the solar system. You seek to use that passing and nature of time as the standard to model all the universe on. All you claims of time rest on that premise.
Yes time passes on earth and we know what time is like here and what it has been like since the creation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1406 by AZPaul3, posted 07-11-2020 3:05 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1415 by AZPaul3, posted 07-12-2020 5:19 PM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1412 of 1498 (879156)
07-12-2020 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1408 by AZPaul3
07-11-2020 10:14 AM


Truth matters.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1408 by AZPaul3, posted 07-11-2020 10:14 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1418 by AZPaul3, posted 07-13-2020 4:24 AM dad has not replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1413 of 1498 (879159)
07-12-2020 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1409 by JonF
07-11-2020 3:54 PM


Re: Lay it on the table
quote:
I'm being perfectly clear. I don't know how many samples,and their locations, and that information doesn't matter to the result.
Of course it matters. Only the rings some 5000 years ago or 4500 or whatever matter. So if there is an old tree with say, 6000 rings, only the first thousand rings or so matter. How else would it relate to how fast trees grew in Noah's day?
quote:
Throughout the sequence, after they had cross-dated the samples by their rings.
Where in the sequences? Unless you produce samples in the time in question, it is not even relevant.
quote:
All studies. SOP means Standard Operating Procedure
That means nothing without telling us exactly what it is. You can't claim a cross section when you do not even know if carbon samples were taken from 5000 year plus rings. If you claim it was then show exactly where in the rings the sample was taken in that area.
quote:
Very unlikely; each test costs money, around $140-450 depending on how much of their work is involved preparing the sample.
OK, that means it is very selective. We need to know who selected what exactly. Otherwise you have no point or support for a same nature in the far past.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1409 by JonF, posted 07-11-2020 3:54 PM JonF has not replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1414 of 1498 (879161)
07-12-2020 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1410 by JonF
07-11-2020 4:07 PM


Re: missing rings
quote:
The sequence covers the last 10,429 years. Are you capable of understanding that 4,500 years ago and 5,000 years ago are both included in that time frame?
You admit not knowing where the carbon samples were taken from, no? You assume it was from the pre 5000 deep rings. Yet you have no example or specs. Show us any tree that is several thousand years old, with carbon samples specifically taken from the area more than 5000 deep?
quote:
And, in your fantasy, carbon 14 decayed at the same rate as trees grew rings.
No. How would I know there was any decay at all at the time? We need evidence for claims.
quote:
Changing the fundamental makeup of the Universe to that extent would render life as we know it impossible
This nature would not have changed so life is fine, thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1410 by JonF, posted 07-11-2020 4:07 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1470 by JonF, posted 07-19-2020 12:50 PM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1416 of 1498 (879214)
07-13-2020 1:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1415 by AZPaul3
07-12-2020 5:19 PM


Realativity is relative
quote:
All time is relative, everywhere in the universe..
You cannot speak about what time is like in the unknown deep universe you have no way to measure or see it. We can say what time is like here on earth and the area of the solar system. You seek to extend what we know into the unknown. Seeing that certain aspects of GR seem to apply far away does not mean time exists out there as we know it.
quote:
..the operations of relativity are invariant regardless of frame of reference anywhere in the universe
No. Things like gravitational waves do not tell us that. The waves are detected here in our spacetime and we see the ripples here.
As an example of how they detect the waves on earth we see this..
"
A laser is fed into the machine and its beam is split along two paths
The separate paths bounce back and forth between damped mirrors
Eventually, the two beams are recombined and sent to a detector
Gravitational waves passing through the lab should disturb the set-up
Theory holds they should very subtly stretch and squeeze its space
This ought to show itself as a change in the lengths of the light arms
The photodetector captures this signal in the recombined beams"
Gravitational waves: Third detection of deep space warping - BBC News
Notice how our space here on earth is what was squeezed.
So we are looking at how our spacetime is affected. Yes there are waves from far away coming in. Yes somethimg caused them. The thing is that we do not see the waves anywhwere else but here.
Now add to that that distances rely on space and time being the same, so if they are not NO DISTANCES to stars or black holes etc are known. All your math is affected.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1415 by AZPaul3, posted 07-12-2020 5:19 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1417 by AZPaul3, posted 07-13-2020 3:47 AM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1419 of 1498 (879242)
07-13-2020 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1417 by AZPaul3
07-13-2020 3:47 AM


Re: Realativity is relative
quote:
You are ignorant of the vast wealth of information in waves of EM energy. So much of the universe is revealed to us in that information.
You have closed your eyes and your mind to the science of light spectra, frequency, polarization, modulation and quantum electrodynamics.
We KNOW deep time. We DO measure it to one part in billions and we see it clearly in the vast reaches throughout the universe despite your religious denials.
Please tell us if light we see in this earth comes from far away? Tell us where we see this light? Do we see it out there, or after it gets here? Ha.
quote:
Your knowledge of LIGO/Virgo is old and primitive. All three detectors have undergone massive upgrades since your cited article and are undergoing yet further upgrades this year. We have seen and analysed not three but, now, multiple dozens of signals.
That was a googled article, not my knowledge of anything. Do tell us how the newer equipment does more than detect ripples on earth though? Ha.
quote:
Both EM energy and gravitational wave energy are much more complex than you can possibly understand. The wealth of information in the waves is beyond your limited comprehension. We know how these things work both here and, despite your religious proclivities and desires, there from where they emanate.
Walk us through what you think you know about the ripples at source?
quote:
We only see the waves here because we knew how to build the detectors. Gravitational waves from billions of light years away only vibrate the LIGO arms by the width of a proton.
The problem is that since ripples are only detected in the fishbowl here that come from somewhere else, you can really only speak to the way it is here. As for the millions of years claim, that sits on a premise of time and space existing the same in the universe. That is not known, so times and distances claimed are invalid.
quote:
Your reaching and scratching for some evidence of some "other" nature has led you, again, to reveal your ignorance of the reality we know.
Nature is not an issue here. Where nature becomes an issue is here on earth and in the far past.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1417 by AZPaul3, posted 07-13-2020 3:47 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1420 by AZPaul3, posted 07-13-2020 7:47 PM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1421 of 1498 (879276)
07-14-2020 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1420 by AZPaul3
07-13-2020 7:47 PM


Re: Realativity is relative
quote:
Do you have some kind of problem with energy reaching here to earth from billions of light years away?
Ir reaches here from somewhere. The time it takes would depend on what time and space were like between here and there. This we don't know. Do you have a problem admitting you do not know?
quote:
The point you don't care to comprehend is that this fishbowl is 96 billion light years in diameter
I refer to the solar system and area as the fishbowl. Man has not been or sent probes further than this.
quote:
and the ripples that reach us from anywhere and everywhere within that fishbowl, be they EM or gravity waves, carry with them the telltale imprints of their origin and their journey and their time.
The arriving waves do not tell us what time is like out there.
quote:
Liar. For you nature is always the issue. You *need* an altered "other" nature, a totally different set of physical laws, to operate at convenient times in convenient places to affect the environment so to justify your...
For science claims about origins of life on earth, nature is the issue. You need it to be the same for your religion. You have no proof and offer none. Troll.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1420 by AZPaul3, posted 07-13-2020 7:47 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1422 by AZPaul3, posted 07-14-2020 4:21 AM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1423 of 1498 (879314)
07-14-2020 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1422 by AZPaul3
07-14-2020 4:21 AM


Re: Realativity is relative
quote:
as a matter of fact we *do* know what spacetime is like between any here and any there in this universe.
A thread like this is where you would post the evidence for that claim. I don't believe you.
quote:
The universe is sending literally trillions of probes of detailed information here to us.
Whatever is sent arrives here in our space and time.
quote:
You are the one who seeks to fake the nature..
Nature on earth is what it is, and was what it was. You know what you know and don't know what you don't know. So stop claiming to know it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1422 by AZPaul3, posted 07-14-2020 4:21 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1424 by AZPaul3, posted 07-14-2020 4:11 PM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1425 of 1498 (879348)
07-15-2020 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1424 by AZPaul3
07-14-2020 4:11 PM


Options smoptians
Your choice to believe something is your own option. Not science.
Edited by dad, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1424 by AZPaul3, posted 07-14-2020 4:11 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1426 by Phat, posted 07-15-2020 10:38 AM dad has replied
 Message 1427 by AZPaul3, posted 07-15-2020 11:17 AM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1428 of 1498 (879364)
07-15-2020 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1426 by Phat
07-15-2020 10:38 AM


pitter patter time to splatter
There is nothing about other people ALSO having beliefs that make you having beliefs a fact. You would need to show that any claims of science you make consist of more than beliefs splattered onto evidences.
Edited by dad, : No reason given.
Edited by dad, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1426 by Phat, posted 07-15-2020 10:38 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1431 by ringo, posted 07-15-2020 12:35 PM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1429 of 1498 (879365)
07-15-2020 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1427 by AZPaul3
07-15-2020 11:17 AM


sanctimonious science
Your rejection is noted and your religious jealousy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1427 by AZPaul3, posted 07-15-2020 11:17 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1430 by AZPaul3, posted 07-15-2020 12:07 PM dad has replied

  
dad
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 337
Joined: 05-29-2020


Message 1432 of 1498 (879377)
07-15-2020 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1430 by AZPaul3
07-15-2020 12:07 PM


Re: Psychopathic Evil Religion
? Jesus ruled when He was here? Christians rule the world? It seems to me that the opposite is true. One example in the US is the mob rule lately with the little racist terrorists running amok and calling it protesting..
Edited by dad, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1430 by AZPaul3, posted 07-15-2020 12:07 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1434 by AZPaul3, posted 07-15-2020 3:19 PM dad has replied

  
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