What have we accomplished?

So my curiosity got the best of me and I had to look up Anthropogeny. I suppose that there is a point along the evolutionary chain where a Bonobo or an early biological ancestor of ancient and modern-day humans actually became a Homo Sapiens proper. Perhaps it was at this point that hypothetically a Creator of all seen and unseen could join that stream and commune with His little creations apart from simply communing as basic animal instinct. After all, would some Dolphins or Great Apes get to a point before Homo Sapiens where they would ponder their own instincts? And as we ponder the musings of ancient goat herders, as religiously inclined humans are referred as, might we consider the possibility that the gods they "made up" might have all been products of their imagination until (and unless) at some point the "living instinct" or the human character of a Creator of all seen and unseen was finally found..(or at least they so imagined) and began to influence their thoughts and deepest yearnings and wishes.

Though my critics and ideological challengers here at EvC will point out that there are far more encounters with human imagined godlike characters throughout all ancestral civilizations, I am proposing that an actual candidate exists among these imaginations which developed into the modern religious belief(s) which humanity has today. And of course, being as certain as I am that I am part of the group which communes with the Real One, I assert that this Real One has as a goal mental and spiritual communion with all of the human species at some point. What happens after that is anyone's guess.

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Wiki writes:

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So anthropology is the study of humans and anthropogeny, is the study of what humans 'gave birth to', to its core definition, although there have been many confusions by those who do not really have an understanding of the word's origins.

My third question is to ask you what you think is the answer as to whether humans simply made any and all gods up or whether there is a possibility that at least some of us have made contact with the Real One.

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Edited by Phat, : fixed a few grammar mistakes and misspellings.

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Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

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The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

With 9 posts between 2010 and now I can't say I have been a prolific poster. So first a little bit about my background. I live in Belgium, Europe where virtually nobody has heared of creationism. I remember tat I read about it for the first time in my student years, when i read Stephen Jay Gould's "panda's thumb". It was a shock, to say the least. I looked stuff up on the Internet, soon landed on Drdino.com and what i saw there was even worse than what I had in mind from Gould's description of creationism. Watching creationist clips on Youtube, or debates between Hovind and Aron Ra, or King Crocoduck showed me creationism's true face.
I have an account here, on christianforums.com and evolutionfairytale.com.Why? Because I was curious what the average creationist had to say. I was so baffled by the stupidity of the arguments of "professional creationists", that I wanted to watch the grass root creationist.So yes, I have learned a lot about the mouvement and the people in it. I just don't know if ignorance couldn't have been a bliss this time.Edited by driewerf, : No reason given.

The USA can be a surprisingly parochial place, many of their beliefs seem to be about 50 years behind NorthernEurope and seem utterly bizarrely to most of us here.

nothing.you have the 3 ring circus of azpaul3, ringo, and tangle.then you have phat and jar arguing with each other ad infinitum.I guess all this place shows is that if you condescend to the people you want to reach out to, eventually no one will listen.besides those 5 users basically talking at the wall here, what is left here?besides concern trolling DJT's presidency.RIP to the dead greats that made this place great. robinrohan, buz, razd, asgaraEdited by a servant of Christ, : No reason given.Edited by a servant of Christ, : No reason given.

Death causes all of us to ponder our own mortality especially when it is someone close to us. Its a fact of life that social media has become simply another medium of human interaction. Its easy to troll...I've often written a post out of knee-jerk emotionalism without thinking long enough about what I really should have said. We all do.EvC serves a useful function in my life. I'm not quite sure if I can articulate what that function is, but I'll get back to you on it.

I'll remember this quote for future debate. Trying to put it in some sort of context.Ben started this thread asking "What Have We Accomplished"? So I guess my question is : what has Europe accomplished in 50 years that the US needs to learn?

That would be 200 years and the achievement would be secular humanism and the development social welfare systems and other secular institutions - health, education and criminal justice.Of course the USA has similar systems but they seem to be at the extremes of everything. Your primitive Christian beliefs are holding back real social progress. Most of Northern Europe has already dropped the more stupid beliefs and the rest are in decline or have become benign.

In my opinion, your progressive beliefs will be found to be lacking what we have needed all along: Christ, as exemplified in Christian Beliefs.

Thanks for the compliment. Once in a while a clown comes in to make everybody laugh. Amen.

They're called progressive because they make social progress - they contribute positively to the well-being of humanity. Your guy has had 2,000 years to make a difference. I reckon that's long enough to demonstrate beyond all doubt that believing in fictional sky daddies doesn't get much done. The world has moved on Phat; we've grown up, get off your knees and do something useful.

Whoa! Thanks for the promotion, but that is way insulting to the other two.

Gould has been dead a while so this would be the genetic fallacy as it wouldn't pertain to today's argument from creation scientists which has grown since the early noughts.Did you know creation scientists have addressed the panda's thumb argument? If you think Hovind and Dr Dino are, "creationisms true face" then you are a stereotypical example of an ignorant evolutionist that thinks laymen like Hovind represent the official creationist position.Evolutionists always want to pick these people as their examples of creation, what they never want to do is actually read the creationist scientist arguments because they know they won't be able to refute them.Anyone can pick the worst arguments as their example of creationism in order to falsely portray that as, "creationism", but it's a lot more difficult and requires true intelligence and knowledge to pick the BEST creation scientists as your example and deal with THEIR arguments.Which reveals the truth, that most internet evolutionists are just laymen like you that don't really have the intelligence or science knowledge to address the best of creationism so can only falsely portray creationist as Kent Hovind and the likes.What is the geologist creationist model of BEDS, Driewerf? What does that acronym stand for? You are logged on now, can you answer quickly without searching for it? Give me an example of an inselburg argument from geologists. what about progradation in flume experiments? What can you tell me that creationists have argued in regards to the creation facies? What can you tell me about the oldest flat gap and what would that say for creationists, scientifically speaking?Conclusion; you know little to nothing about creationist arguments. Those aren't the arguments from professional creationists. laymen creationists with little to no knowledge don't represent the official creationist stance, that would be like me judging evolution based on some atheists at EvC forum that shout insults at me and think a crocodilomorph is a character from pokemon.You never addressed any arguments from professional creationists. When we discussed whale evolution on evolutionfairytale you didn't understand it well and were refuted fairly easily. Later on for bad behaviour you were banned, because all you could offer like here is question-begging epithets and name-calling.All you ever shown was RHETORIC. Like here you simply call the official creationism, "stupid".That's all you ever done Driewerf, because you are nothing more than the average atheist troll.CONCLUSION: You're a prime example of what most evolutionists seem to be online, people that basically just HATE on creationists and call them names.Here is a good example of Driewerf folks, instead of addressing or understanding anything I said properly, here is how he responded to my post, a bunch of insults like in this thread here; (which is all most evolutionists ever seem to do to my mind, offer insults and epithets but nothing of any intellectual merit)Bot VerificationEdited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given.

I think this is basically true.

So do I, nothing can change those determined to remain ignorant. We're not trying to 'reach out' to anyone here, we're just airing the arguments.As for "eventually no one will listen". Nobody IS listening. We're just a few rationalists talking to a few nutters. The rest of the world is quietly getting on with forgetting all about the rapidly declining group of creationists that still think like bronze age nomads.In a few generations there'll only be a handful of you left shouting "the end is nigh" on street corners in almost forgotten towns watching the tumbleweed roll past.I know you think you're very important and all knowing - it seems to be a trait of your kind, to possess knowledge that no-one has - but you're whistling in he wind; no-one is listening except your tiny band of fellow cranks.

Good morning, O Tangled One. And howdy-do to you also, MTW! The conversations on these boards are sometimes quite entertaining, and I for one will confess that I sometimes actually read them! Of course Tangle and I know somewhat of each other, our respective positions and experiences in life, and from whence we derive at our thought processes. (and since I chose to address this reply specifically to Tangle, I ask Tangle to consider my reply also as addressed to Mikey. He used to be a member here at EvC, you know. )First off, Mikey, I did click on your link where you attempted to expose the ignorance of our boy from Europe: Driewerf. Tangle and I tangled earlier about the definition of what progressive beliefs actually were: For the record, I encourage Tangle to get on his knees and ask the Creator of all seen and unseen for wisdom!Anyway...
As I was introduced to an entirely new cast of characters from Evolution Fairy Tales I began to size all of them up.I read some of their replies:

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• MikeTheWiz, Moderator/member. Age: 36. Christian Creationist--England
• driewerf(now banned) Age: 43. ( no affiliation) Atheist--Belgium
• Fjuri,Veteran Member. Age: 31 (no affiliation) Atheist-- Belgium

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The list goes on. And my question to Mike is this: Mike, first of all, one of the primary reasons that EvC Member Faith used to frustrate me so much is because she took what was and is basically a spiritual argument and attempted to add intellectual apologetics to it---which cannot really win. I see you doing much the same thing. Can you share with us what it is that makes your Christian Belief real to you? Because basically at the end of the day, Jesus Christ is alive or He isnt.Tangle seems convinced that the whole discussion is incredulous and cant for the life of him entertain any possible notions that Christ is alive and that God is real. Another thing, Mike. Humble yourself. Quit acting like you are irrefutable. Roll with the punches and learn how to argue and persuade more effectively.As for you, Tangled One, I'm not sure if anything I say to you will penetrate the intellectual defense you have set up around your ears and "reasoning" mind.