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Author Topic:   Morality without God is impossible
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 304 of 472 (875539)
04-28-2020 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by Dogmafood
04-03-2020 7:07 AM


Re: Are the morals of a lion the same as an antelope?
Dogmafood writes:
The best I can say is that you don't reverse 3 billion yrs of evolution just because you evolved an intellect. Our intelligence is a progression of that evolution and no matter what your stated basis for evaluating good and bad is it is still trying to push the same buttons that it always has.
This shows you still don't understand Maslow's pyramid.
I'm not attempting to say that intellect reverses any evolution.
But it does build on top of it.
Humans definitely do have that 3 billion years of evolution still inside them. That's the base of the pyramid - instinctual needs. Like food, water and shelter.
But... if we meet those needs, then our intellect is free to focus on other things.
If we meet enough/most/all instinctual needs (the top of Maslow's pyramid) then our intellect is extremely free from those 3 billion years of evolutionary drives - because those drives are already met!
All that's left is our intellect - and we are free to focus on what we want - different for everyone. And are no longer held back by being focused on instinctual needs.
What is the 3 billion years of evolution "button" that makes people choose to play darts? Or any other form of entertainment?
There is none.
These choices are freely made, intellectually, without regard to drives such as procreation or survival.
Because, if one is choosing to play darts, their "3 billion year old buttons" driving them to procreate and/or survive... are already pressed and already met!
No one chooses to play darts while running for their life from a mad gunman.
But, if you're safe, and out with pals, and there's no pressing need to have a baby... then you can freely choose to play darts or baseball or video games or collect stamps or any other form of entertainment.
Such choices are choices made (or, at least, "can be made") without regard to procreation and/or survival.
Not because procreation and survival are "reversed." But simply because those needs have already been met (Maslow's pyramid.)
Again, what is it about being able to reason that would fundamentally change that 3 billion yr trend?
3 billion years ago, reason did not exist on this planet.
An ant cannot choose a form of "entertainment" regardless of how well their needs for procreation/survival are met. Their pyramid simply does not go up that high.
Reason does not exist for an ant, and didn't exist for us (or any other living thing on earth) 3 billion years ago.
But now, reason exists for us.
Now, our pyramid does go that high.
Now, once our instinctual needs/drives are met - we are free to focus on wants/desires/choices/decisions that are based on reason/intellect and not based on instinctual needs/drives/buttons like procreation or survival.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Dogmafood, posted 04-03-2020 7:07 AM Dogmafood has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by Phat, posted 05-03-2020 12:01 PM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 306 of 472 (875704)
05-03-2020 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 305 by Phat
05-03-2020 12:01 PM


Re: Are the morals of a lion the same as an antelope?
Phat writes:
Stile: All that's left is our intellect - and we are free to focus on what we want - different for everyone.
Serpant: Hey buddy. humans are all that there is. You will be as gods. Don't listen to myths.
Some use their intellect for evil and confusion.
Others for good and honesty.
Which do you choose?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by Phat, posted 05-03-2020 12:01 PM Phat has not replied

  
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