Hitch is dead

Fascinating, the idea of a deity or cleric in the role of Milgram's lab-coat wearing torturer!

On the other hand, if there really is an afterlife, and a god, Hitchens will probably go to heaven for the good works he has done and all those bible-thumping bigots and kaffiyah wearing terrorists and boy-abusing priests and .... will all be burning in hell.If heaven, hell or god actually exist. Which there is no evidence for.

Christianity, spelled out by the Protestant Reformers and shown to be from the Bible, says good works won't save us, faith in Christ's death is what saves us. Good works are a result of loving Christ, not for salvation. I liked Hitch, sorry he died without faith. Interesting his brotgher is a believer.

This is all rather illogical. Someone born in 100 BCE couldn't know Jesus, so couldn't be saved. OK, then, you say that people before Jesus are allowed to go to heaven based on their adherence to the faith that existed before Jesus. So why can't people now go to heaven if they adhere to that old faith, for example, if they are Jewish? Or consider someone born in the year 1000 CE but in a place like Japan or South America where news of Jesus hadn't yet arrived. Could they go to heaven? Seems a bit unfair if they can't, doesn't it? Even nowadays there are plenty of places where people aren't really "exposed" to Christianity; probably plenty of tribal villages with no preachers and no bibles. Are those people still eligible for heaven? If they are, but Hitchens isn't, you've got an irrational religious system there!

I should stay out of this but let me add my 2 cents. I agree with Faith that it is all about faith but as a Christian I would say that Faith has misconstrued what it is that we are to have faith in.Faith is IMHO all wrapped in who is in and who is out so to speak, and that is determined by whether or not one believes in the correct doctrine. The basic message of the Gospels is that we are called to a vocation.The point is to have faith in and live out the message that was Jesus' call on our lives. Yes, the Gospels do say that we can have relationship with Jesus/God, but that vocation is for all of mankind, and not just Christians. We are called to live a life based on humble kindness and mercy while loving our neighbours as ourselves.I would agree that in ways that can't begin to comprehend, that our lives now will impact what happens with us when this world is renewed, but I'm more than happy to let God worry about that.I listened to a number of debates involving Hitchens and in some cases I thought he sounded more Christ like than the Christians he was debating.

That's because being Christlike is about being a decent human being - which is a very good thing that we all recognise. - do as you would be done by and all that.While being a Christian is often the opposite and is at best is a waste of people's lives and resources.btw, as usual it was impossible to avoid all the religious humbug over the Easter break but one interesting comment by an economist made my day; the global wealth invested by religions is $17 trillion - about 20% of all invested wealth. So much for the widow's mite and giving up all to follow Christ.

Unless the economists is including Islamic theocracys, I would doubt that very much. Within the Christian church I would think that the only great wealth is in real estate which the various churches have had for decades or centuries.

It's ALL religious wealth.Why would it matter if it was held in stocks and shares or land and property?

First off, how about a link to your economist rather than just your assertion.
Does he include Islamic theocracys?
I mention the real estate simply because much of the real estate value is involved in building that are decades and centuries old and are now historic sites and their value is more intrinsic as opposed to having an actual monetary value.

It was a radio programme - no link. I'm currently trying to find something. I'm afraid the wiki doesn't help you much if you're not prepared to believe that the religious are the wealthiest on the planetWealth and religion - Wikipedia

quote:

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Global
According to a study from 2015, Christians hold the largest amount of wealth (55% of the total world wealth), followed by Muslims (5.8%), Hindus (3.3%), and Jews (1.1%). According to the same study it was found that adherents under the classification Irreligion or other religions hold about 34.8% of the total global wealth.[3]

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A study done by the nonpartisan wealth research firm New World Wealth found that 56.2% of the 13.1 million millionaires in the world were Christians,[4] while 6.5% were Muslims, 3.9% were Hindu, and 1.7% were Jewish; 31.7% were identified as adherents of "other" religions or "not religious".

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This appears to be individual wealth rather than th3 religious organisations themselves. But more than half of world wealth held by Christians - fine Christians they are eh? I'm still not understanding your point. Wealth is wealth regardless of the assets it's composed of and that sort of dosh would solve an awful lot of the world's problems and, it would also be a Christian act.

Here is the definition of a Christian from that wiki site Firstly they have a very loose definition of w;hat constitutes a Christian. I have numerous friends who call themselves Christian because they grew up in a Christian culture, but never read the Bible and never attend church. However, they are Christian because they have the general idea of the Golden Rule and that it's a good thing.The other thing is, is that it is obvious that Christians are much better at earning money, and clearly more intelligent that the non-believers who don't even make the chart.

No true Scotsman, eh? Er, there are more of them...But I note you're no longer denying facts. For example, It's anyone's guess what the Vatican's wealth is. They're too smart to be open about it. Best guess... But they also own a whole bloody country and god only know what the wealth imbedded in their land and buildings are. Thousands of years of tithing...

Not really. We both live in secular countries but yet the western world is still considered culturally Christian. I just question what it is they are basing their statistics on.

What you're doing is quibbling about unimportant details while ignoring the very obvious fact that neither the general Christian public nor their pious institutions are following Jesus's teachings. They're all rich.Here's some information on the Church of England wealth. I suspect that it excludes the real value of its land and buildings.

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The Church’s property portfolio and investments are immense. It is sitting on a combination of ancient endowments and investments worth 8.3bn, which last year alone increased by 400m.

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The holdings of the Church's governing bodies alone mean that it has 8bn to start with.

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The Corporation of Church House has 27m, the Archbishop's Council is worth 49m, the Church Commissioners has 6.7m, and the Church of England Pensions Board is worth 1.2m reported secularism.org.

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The Church's wealth started out in property. It owns 16,000 churches and 42 cathedrals, and many are Grade 1 listed - though they do come with huge maintenance bills.

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The Church owns a string of property, including Hyde Park Estate in London and and 105,000 acres of land across England and Wales.

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It purchased 17,000 acres of forestry in Scotland and Wales, and 765 acres of land in Kent last year, reported The Independent.

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It also owns 10% interest and associated land in the MetroCentre in Gateshead.

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It has also made 57m in financial collections from parishioners.

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It's a religious organisation, yes - but it's also a billionaire investor. Here's how much the Church has and what it does with it.

Bit more information here, as to how the Catholic Church in the US spends its $171 billion a year. (This info is second hand, but it cites The Economist, and if needed, I can try to verify).The Economist Estimates the Catholic Church Spent $171,600,000,000 in 2010 | Hemant Mehta | Friendly Atheist | PatheosIt doesn’t say how much of its healthcare goes for charitable purposes, but I’m guessing the majority goes to its priests and staff. And a whopping 2.7% goes on general charitable donations.Jesus must be so proud of them.Edited by vimesey, : No reason given.