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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Moral issues and the Justice system or something like that | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
quote: I think this goes beyond the level of a simple mistake. And I doubt that it’s the only example of that.
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vimesey Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
The conviction of the innocent person is the mistake.
The decision to kill convicted people (instead of locking them up for life) knowing that mistakes will happen when it comes to convicting people, is a deliberate choice which you know will, from time to time, kill innocent people. Because mistakes are inevitable. The death sentence is therefore murder when it is carried out on an innocent person.Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: The death penalty is entirely Christian. Only for the deplorable barbaric Christian Cult of Revulsion. The Death Penalty goes directly against everything Jesus taught.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 643 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
"Vengence is mine' saith the lord" . that means it is god's , not yours, not mine, not 'the state'. It's God's.
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ringo Member (Idle past 443 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Not according to Jesus: The death penalty is entirely Christian.quote:You're the one who is misreading the Bible. It's right there, as plain as day. "I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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Aware Wolf Member (Idle past 1451 days) Posts: 156 From: New Hampshire, USA Joined: |
... then executions should be stopped until only the truly guilty are executed. That might be a nice compromise. Leave the death penalty on the books, but in practice never implement it since the day will never come that only the truly guilty is executed.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Gosh, everybody's so eager to keep murderers alive, wow. But killing babies is just fine. Weird.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
There are some cases where there is absolutely no doubt about the guilt. Those should be executed if there's any way to separate them from the doubtful ones.
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
In a way it's hard to say what I want to get at here. I keep losing my own frame of reference. Something about being annoyed that issues were brought up about morality that people shouldn't have to spend so much time trying to resolve. I guess this is because I have the Christian point of view that we're all sinners, any of us could have been in circumstances that caused us to act criminally, in a way it's all God's grace if we don't. But nevertheless crimes must be punished. The Bible clearly says that if someone kills a human being he must die for it. So all the ponderings about whether or not someone is completely evil or partially evil or whatenot are just red herrings. Maybe I'll figure out more cldearly what I'm trtrying to say if this gets discussed. I think what you might be trying to elucidate is the degrees to which someone can fall on a scale of good to evil. Perhaps their mentioning of him being a good caretaker was to show the dichotomy of behaving genuinely compassionately in one instance and yet paradoxically behaving in a manner so appalling that it shocks the conscience as a way to explain that they didn't see this coming. Its possible for cartel members to read their children a bedtime story and do everything in their power to love those children while simultaneously being able to disassociate themselves by murdering and torturing someone else's child just to exact revenge on their enemies. Serial killers are also often able to live productive lives and raise families while secretly fantasizing and carrying out horrific rapes and murders. I think good and evil is not binary. Terrible people are occasionally capable of doing something good while good people are occasionally capable of doing something terrible. "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
Sorry, you're wrong. The death penalty is entirely Christian. I'm sorry Catholics are too liberal to understand that, and like many others misread the Bible. There are always going to be mistakes, people who were wrongly convicted. We should do everything possible to prevent that, even curtailing executions until the system is more reliable at identifying miscarriages of justice. But not because there's something wrong with the death penalty as the just sentence for certain crimes, because there isn't. As usual, the bible constantly contradicts itself... but here are some basic precepts that Jesus spoke in stark contrast to the very Law that demands and commands death.
quote: quote: quote: quote: As you can see, Jesus never denied the Law... He said the Law was valid. What they did not understand was that he was setting himself up as the propitiation of the Law which therefore did away with its rigorous constraints -- not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. The bible also says that you, being a woman, need to go outside the gates of the city when you're menstruating. Having not done that makes you eligible for death. Ever eaten a shrimp? Death to you then. Do you see where I am going with this? Because Jesus himself tried to make it very clear that every one of us violated the law and therefore are worthy of death... that is until he became that guilt offering. If you want capital punishment then you want to reinstitute the Law of Moses. "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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jar Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Once again Faith you simply lie. No one has said killing babies is okay; it is only the Christian Cult of Revulsion that equates abortion to killing babies because they are too out of touch with honesty or reality.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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This is a spurious argument. The validity of the death penalty is a completely separate issue from the fact that mistakes in judgment of particular cases may be made. No Faith it just happened, it's real, a man innocent of the charges he was executed for was killed. That is not justice, it is a miscarriage of justice that results in the unwarranted murder of a person. Contrast that to life in prison, which ends in death of old age. An innocent person can be freed, a murdered person cannot be revived. How is execution better? Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
Faith writes: Those should be executed if there's any way to separate them from the doubtful ones. quote:
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Faith writes: There are some cases where there is absolutely no doubt about the guilt. Those should be executed if there's any way to separate them from the doubtful ones. I, actually, completely agree with this statement. But, I think there's a lot of confusion/disagreement on what "such cases" actually are.Which cases are "worthy" of killing the criminal? - Some are easy to identify, others are not - the issue isn't the easy-to-identify ones, it's for the hard ones - where does the line get drawn? Also, the big question is: How do we, actually, "separate them from the doubtful ones?"Our track record on this terrible. And I don't like the idea of "trying to figure these out" by implementing systems that "might work and might not" - it's gambling with innocent people's lives. Is there a way to "figure out" these issue without trial-and-error on innocent lives and then implement a "perfect system?"-if so, I would be interested in looking at it and probably implementing it -but nothing like this is possible or even proposed at this point - as long as this is the fact-of-the-matter: I find it abhorrent to "gamble with innocent people's lives" just because others would appreciate it if it did actually get figured out "one day."
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Was there any doubt about Ted Bundy? Or the case I've described for that matter?
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