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Author Topic:   Testing The Christian Apologists
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 814 of 1086 (872518)
02-28-2020 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 812 by Tangle
02-28-2020 8:48 AM


Re: No God Needed?
Hi Tangle
This was a reply to Phat but the quote was from Phat but you used GDR.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 812 by Tangle, posted 02-28-2020 8:48 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 817 by Tangle, posted 02-28-2020 11:17 AM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 815 of 1086 (872521)
02-28-2020 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 813 by ringo
02-28-2020 10:39 AM


Re: The point of Christianity
ringo writes:
Well, it isn't "only".
But in any case, service that benefits the server as well as the servee is, if anything, better than one-way service. Service in a restaurant is better if the waitress gets paid. Better than slavery.
Well sure, but that isn't what we are talking about. That kind of service isn't about loving your neighbour or loving sacrificially. Knowing that your neighbour is struggling financially and then slipping a hundred dollar bill in his/her mail box anonymously is an act of sacrificial love.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 813 by ringo, posted 02-28-2020 10:39 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 816 by ringo, posted 02-28-2020 11:05 AM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 818 of 1086 (872527)
02-28-2020 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 809 by Tangle
02-28-2020 3:39 AM


Re: The point of Christianity
Tangle writes:
Because we have an evolved brain and consciousness! You accept evolution, this is the result. We create the rules we live by and always have. There is no evidence that anything else has made us the way we are.
We know we evolved physically but there are only unevidenced theories such as yours about the evolution of consciousness.
However my point has always been that even if consciousness can be shown to have evolved it doesn't change anything. Once again, it is like looking at an automobile and claiming that the assembly line is the sole reason for its existence.
Tangle writes:
You tell us that loving each other is all that is required of us by your reading of your religious work, well I'm happy with that, I just find the need for a god superfluous.
Once again the point of being a Christian is not to be on the right side of God when you die. The point is that as a Christian you have faith that God has given you life and loves you and your neighbour. It hopefully makes you more open to that God meme and gives you a heart that wants to live a life based on my signature.
I can't find any stats on it, but I would bet that by far the most NGO aid that goes into the third world is from Christian organizations and individuals. The sponsors of Syrian, (usually Islamic by the way), refugees in this area were very nearly always Christian. This involved not just money but considerable time as well helping them get settled.
God is in all of that which makes God anything but superfluous. It is the vocation that God calls us to as humans and it isn't that non-Christians can't fulfill that vocation but I suggest that it is pretty clear that the Christian response is far greater than the response from those of other faiths or non-faiths.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 809 by Tangle, posted 02-28-2020 3:39 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 820 by Tangle, posted 02-28-2020 12:05 PM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 819 of 1086 (872528)
02-28-2020 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 816 by ringo
02-28-2020 11:05 AM


Re: The point of Christianity
ringo writes:
Service is service. It's all about getting along together, cooperation.
Love does not have to be "sacrificial". That's just an excuse to shoehorn Jesus' death into the equation. He may have sacrificed His life but He didn't actually accomplish anything by doing it. He would have shown more love by tipping the waitress at the Last Supper.
Aid to third world countries is not about co-operation it is about loving your neighbour sacrificially.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 816 by ringo, posted 02-28-2020 11:05 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 821 by ringo, posted 02-28-2020 12:14 PM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 822 of 1086 (872532)
02-28-2020 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 820 by Tangle
02-28-2020 12:05 PM


Re: The point of Christianity
Tangle writes:
Well that's one hell of an unsupported claim and is also irrelevant. Your argument now seems to be that christians are better at being nice people - an idea that is pretty disgusting and beneath you.
What I claimed was that the vast majority of NGO foreign aid is done by Christian organizations. I have never said that Christians are "nicer" than non-Christians. That is simply your term and not one I have ever used in this context.
I am simply saying that Christians are more likely to offer foreign aid to unknown neighbours than non-Christians, and used the refugee case as an example.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 820 by Tangle, posted 02-28-2020 12:05 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 824 by Tangle, posted 02-28-2020 12:51 PM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 823 of 1086 (872533)
02-28-2020 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 821 by ringo
02-28-2020 12:14 PM


Re: The point of Christianity
ringo writes:
Foreign aid is only a tiny part of our international cooperation. We gain far more than we "sacrifice" by getting along with our fellow earthlings.
..and just how well is that working out?
Our relatively small church provides about 60% of the support to provide a shelter, food and education for young women in Kampala. The reminder of the support comes from another church. We provide nearly all of the support to keep a library going in Addis. We provide money to the hospital for care as well as for the education of others in Uganda. We have fund raisers to provide funds for local agencies such as the food bank and hospital in our community.
We send money to a fund set up by our national church that provides aid where needed all over the world.
Frankly I don't see larger organizations such as the local service clubs doing anywhere near that and when they do they is usually a picture in the paper with them handing over a cheque to someone.
Certainly international co-operation is a good thing but more often than not that co-operation is about providing arms and often winds up leaving those countries with huge amounts of debt.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 821 by ringo, posted 02-28-2020 12:14 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 826 by ringo, posted 02-28-2020 7:28 PM GDR has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 825 of 1086 (872535)
02-28-2020 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 824 by Tangle
02-28-2020 12:51 PM


Re: The point of Christianity
Tangle writes:
Anyone can love others and behave decently to them. The god side of your proposition, particularly the christian god side, is redundant.
Sure, but if the Christian argument that all love is a result of God loving us is true, then God is anything but redundant.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 824 by Tangle, posted 02-28-2020 12:51 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 829 by Tangle, posted 02-29-2020 9:45 PM GDR has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 827 of 1086 (872576)
02-28-2020 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 826 by ringo
02-28-2020 7:28 PM


Re: The point of Christianity
ringo writes:
Pretty well. We can't grow bananas in Saskatchewan but we can get 'em. And as my father used to say, we can't eat all of the wheat we grow.
..and yet we still have trade wars and even strikes so that the wheat doesn't always get to market.
ringo writes:
I don't think you're using a valid metric. Jesus Himself seemed to measure value not by how much you give but by how much you keep back for yourself - e.g. two mites is more than bags and bags of gold.
I agree with that but in our case we aren't a rich church.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 826 by ringo, posted 02-28-2020 7:28 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 828 by ringo, posted 02-28-2020 9:19 PM GDR has not replied

  
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