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Author Topic:   Charismatic Chaos
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 429 of 531 (871629)
02-07-2020 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 422 by jar
02-06-2020 12:30 PM


Re: Whining for A Free pass
jar writes:
But it is not racism that is the issue but behavior....
As Tangle's dictionary agrees with me, racism is behavior.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 422 by jar, posted 02-06-2020 12:30 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 430 by Phat, posted 02-07-2020 11:04 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 431 of 531 (871631)
02-07-2020 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 426 by Hyroglyphx
02-06-2020 6:20 PM


Re: Whining for A Free pass
Hyroglyphx writes:
I disagree with that and so does the dictionary.
The dictionary includes a wide range of usages. In the context of this discussion, a broad definition that includes all forms of racial discrimination is not useful.
Hroglyphx writes:
Power makes it easier to manifest one's racism in the form of oppression but its not a requirement to hate someone based upon their race alone.
Again, "hating someone based upon their race alone" is too wishy-washy to be useful in this discussion. Use the word "hate" instead of racism.
Hyroglyphx writes:
... stripped down to its purest form it just means either/or the belief that one race is superior to another or the discrimination of people based only on account of race.
Beliefs are irrelevant. I doubt that Theodoric cares whether somebody believes they are superior to him or whether they believe that pink unicorns are secretly ruling the earth. Beliefs only matter when they impinge on other people's lives and they can only do that through action. That action can take the form of burning a cross on a lawn or just closing your eyes.
Hyroglyphx writes:
Anyone, at any time, is capable of that.
Sure, a gringo in Mexico can be a victim of racism. But the only society we can improve is our own.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 426 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-06-2020 6:20 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 436 by Tangle, posted 02-07-2020 12:31 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 432 of 531 (871633)
02-07-2020 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 430 by Phat
02-07-2020 11:04 AM


Re: Christianity Was Originally A Minority Belief
Phat writes:
I predict that it will again become the religion of the poor.
In Message 424 you said:
quote:
When Trump used to address his base, he told them that they need not feel forgotten anymore. he likely understood that poorer white people feel it coming from both sides---the powerful group at the top of the economic spectrum, the pressure to belong to (and thus benefit) from this groups power, and the pressure from the rising masses globally who are no longer going to take getting exploited.
I think you were closer to the mark there. The poor and the rich are on the same side, just like the poor white Southerners who supported slavery.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 430 by Phat, posted 02-07-2020 11:04 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 435 of 531 (871640)
02-07-2020 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 434 by GDR
02-07-2020 12:17 PM


Re: Christianity Was Originally A Minority Belief
GDR writes:
The early Christians were highly distinctive in contrast to their violent, self-serving culture, for the way that they loved each other, the way that loved their neighbours and even their enemies.
Is there any evidence of that?

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 434 by GDR, posted 02-07-2020 12:17 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 437 by GDR, posted 02-07-2020 12:34 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 438 by Phat, posted 02-07-2020 4:52 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 440 of 531 (871663)
02-08-2020 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 436 by Tangle
02-07-2020 12:31 PM


Re: Whining for A Free pass
Tangle writes:
Just as a demonstration of the asymmetry of values here, somehow you are comfortable saying that but might not be so comfortable saying...
Sure, a [slang word for Mexican] in the USA can be a victim of racism ?
Well, of course there are things I can call myself that I can't call other people.
The point is that I don't mind calling myself a gringo or being called a gringo because I have never been a victim of my gringoness. As far as I'm concerned, it isn't an insult. My culture has groomed me to take pride in my gringoness. Even while being persecuted by a Mexican majority, I would be inwardly looking down on them.
Tangle writes:
Not being from your part of the world I don't know what that word might be.
We don't have many Mexicans here. Our Hispanics tend to be Salvadorans, Nicaraguans, etc. - i.e. victims of American foreign policy. I've worked with a lot of them. They're the best people I know, despite my innate racism.
Tangle writes:
These things only become offensive when they're being used aggressively and as deliberate insults.
Well, I have used the n-word a couple of times on this forum, not aggressively and not as an insult. No offense was intended and, as far as I know, none was taken.
Tangle writes:
And 'privileged white guy' is being used just like that now....
A fat guy doesn't have any right to be insulted if somebody calls him fat. Embarassment might be appropriate. He might even be thankful for having it pointed out.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 436 by Tangle, posted 02-07-2020 12:31 PM Tangle has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 441 of 531 (871664)
02-08-2020 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 438 by Phat
02-07-2020 4:52 PM


Re: Christianity Was Originally A Minority Belief
Phat writes:
You must surely be the worlds biggest skeptic.
Because I ask for evidence? No, that would be the world's smallest skeptic. Asking for evidence is literally the least I can do without being a gullible fool.
Phat writes:
I suppose you think that not only was jesus made up but the very character of the people of the Way.
There is no evidence that Jesus existed. But the charaqcter of the "people of the Way" is definitely not superior, according to the evidence.
Phat writes:
And I suppose you can and do argue that any group of people can be loving and selfless.
I can and do argue that non-Christians are at least as loving and selfless, often more so.
Phat writes:
I still think you miss the additional spark that some people have.
In the same way that you miss the unicorns grazing in your living room.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 438 by Phat, posted 02-07-2020 4:52 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 451 of 531 (871689)
02-09-2020 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 443 by Phat
02-08-2020 3:31 PM


Re: From Another Topic...
Phat writes:
God is a much bigger concept than ringo feeding people and doing his chores.
ringo writes:
Why would we need - or want - a concept bigger than that?
It would be nice to meet God someday.
I have no desire to meet the loathsome "god" that Faith worships.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 443 by Phat, posted 02-08-2020 3:31 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 453 by Phat, posted 02-09-2020 4:09 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 452 of 531 (871690)
02-09-2020 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 447 by Phat
02-09-2020 10:20 AM


Re: Two Commandments & Two Questions
Phat writes:
I do believe that corporate worship--prayer with a group of people--unites us if but for that moment.
Interesting that you use the word "corporate" instead of "communal".
Phat writes:
And what still bothers me is your idea that the lessons can have value even if not literally coming from God.
Is calculus less important if you learn it from George instead of Jim?

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 447 by Phat, posted 02-09-2020 10:20 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 464 of 531 (871718)
02-10-2020 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 453 by Phat
02-09-2020 4:09 PM


Re: From Another Topic...
Phat writes:
What about the God (pick one) from the OT? What about Jesus Father? What about Jesus Himself?
What if I make you the same offer? You can meet a random person; he might be a billionaire philanthropist who adopts you - or a serial killer, or a whiny little loser. Would you jump at the chance of meeting him?
Phat writes:
What about Jesus Himself? Would you be eager to meet Him or would you wave Him off and say that you were doing just fine?
There are plenty of people in the world who are as "nice" as Jesus. I don't have any need to meet every one of them.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 453 by Phat, posted 02-09-2020 4:09 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 481 of 531 (871753)
02-11-2020 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 470 by Phat
02-10-2020 2:47 PM


Re: Two Commandments & Two Questions
Phat writes:
... you--unique among Christians we know--cant simply accept what many others accept without not only questioning it but trashing it.
Why can't you accept Mormonism or Islam without questioning them?

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 470 by Phat, posted 02-10-2020 2:47 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 491 of 531 (871783)
02-12-2020 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 485 by GDR
02-12-2020 2:29 AM


Re: feel all better now?
GDR writes:
... you just can't commit to their beliefs.
How can you commit to beliefs when there is nothing to back them up? It's pretty much a random choice what you believe - which is why most people believe what they learned as children. Committing to a belief is heading in the direction of fanaticism.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 485 by GDR, posted 02-12-2020 2:29 AM GDR has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 492 by Phat, posted 02-12-2020 2:21 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 493 of 531 (871786)
02-12-2020 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 492 by Phat
02-12-2020 2:21 PM


Re: feel all better now?
Phat writes:
I did find your honest apologist in Bart Campolo.
You didn't let us test his honesty.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 492 by Phat, posted 02-12-2020 2:21 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 494 by Phat, posted 02-12-2020 5:21 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 497 of 531 (871830)
02-13-2020 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 494 by Phat
02-12-2020 5:21 PM


Re: feel all better now?
Phat writes:
If you figure a way to do it, I would encourage you to follow through. Just how will we test him?
We've been through that many times. Compare what he says against what the Bible says.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 494 by Phat, posted 02-12-2020 5:21 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 498 by Phat, posted 02-13-2020 10:58 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 499 of 531 (871834)
02-13-2020 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 498 by Phat
02-13-2020 10:58 AM


Re: feel all better now?
Phat writes:
he used no scripture.
You said, "I did find your honest apologist in Bart Campolo." Message 492
How is he an apologist if he uses no scripture?
Phat writes:
He basically just gave me 3 things to think about.
1) Be careful who I listen to
2) Be honest with myself
3) Don't be afraid.
We've been telling you that for years.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 498 by Phat, posted 02-13-2020 10:58 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 500 by Phat, posted 02-13-2020 3:04 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 502 of 531 (871883)
02-14-2020 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 500 by Phat
02-13-2020 3:04 PM


Re: feel all better now?
Phat writes:
Because he was a believer for 20 years.
Then he was an apologist and now he may be honest. To be an "honest apologist" he'd have to be an apologist and honest at the same time. He sounds like a reformed apologist.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 500 by Phat, posted 02-13-2020 3:04 PM Phat has not replied

  
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