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Author Topic:   Charismatic Chaos
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 42 of 531 (514265)
07-05-2009 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by ICANT
07-09-2008 4:44 PM


Re: Specifically to the point
sorry realized post I answered was way old.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by ICANT, posted 07-09-2008 4:44 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 256 of 531 (869172)
12-25-2019 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by Faith
12-24-2019 4:49 AM


Re: The spirit was strong on this one
it reads like history
It reads nothing like history. I read a lot of history, my academic training is in history. The bible reads like no history. It read like fiction. It reads more like Tolkein and C.S.Lewis than history. Lewis was not a historian. He taught literature not history. If you have an reason to think that Lewis was a historian please present it.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Faith, posted 12-24-2019 4:49 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Faith, posted 12-26-2019 7:34 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 262 of 531 (869221)
12-26-2019 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by Faith
12-26-2019 7:34 AM


Re: The spirit was strong on this one
Supply the Lewis quote so it can be examined in context. Lewis was not a historian. His view on history are actually not relevant.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Faith, posted 12-26-2019 7:34 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by Phat, posted 12-26-2019 3:52 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 265 of 531 (869233)
12-26-2019 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by Phat
12-26-2019 3:52 PM


Re: The spirit was strong on this one
A holocaust survivor is a more relevant source for their experience, but a historian that studied that period would be an actual expert on the holocaust and that period. Experts are experts for a reason. A holocaust survivor is not an expert on the holocaust. They are on expert on their own personal experience. Nothing more. This is a very silly argument.
C.S Lewis was not an expert on History or historical texts.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Phat, posted 12-26-2019 3:52 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Phat, posted 12-26-2019 4:27 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 268 of 531 (869240)
12-26-2019 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Phat
12-26-2019 4:27 PM


Re: The spirit was strong on this one
So you agree with me that he is solely an expert on his own personal experience and admit your analogy with the holocaust survivor was silly and did not support any of your arguments.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Phat, posted 12-26-2019 4:27 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 271 of 531 (869249)
12-26-2019 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by Faith
12-26-2019 7:14 PM


Re: Lewis on literature and history
Provide the sources that show him claiming this so we can examine the context. And no he was not an expert on history. I fail to see why you think the claim is helpful or relevant.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Faith, posted 12-26-2019 7:14 PM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 272 of 531 (869251)
12-26-2019 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by Faith
12-26-2019 7:14 PM


Re: Lewis on literature and history
Seemingly C.S. Lewis did not agree with you.
C. S. Lewis on Inerrancy, Inspiration, and Historicity of Scripture
quote:
The point is that the whole Book of Jonah has to me the air of being a moral romance,
quote:
The universally admitted unhistoricity (I do not say, of course, falsity) of at least some of the narratives in Scripture (the parables), which may well also extend to Jonah and Job.
quote:
rule out the view that every statement in Scripture must be historical truth.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Faith, posted 12-26-2019 7:14 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by Faith, posted 12-26-2019 10:47 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 276 of 531 (869268)
12-27-2019 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 273 by Faith
12-26-2019 10:47 PM


Again Faith needs to backpedal and retract claims
So you admit you were lying for Jesus? You made these outlandish claims about what C.S. Lewis said and you have absolutely know evidence to back up the claims. You have hit a new low even for you.
No one can trust anything you say, because your claims are rife with lies and dishonesty.
I know you do not wonder why no one trusts you. You know why. You are an admitted troll that will say anything to support your viewpoint. You believe that lying for Jesus is a just and right thing to do.
I wish I could say it amazes me that someone that claims such a moral high ground resorts so easily to such amoral behavior, but alas it does not, it is par for the course when dealing with fundies.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Faith, posted 12-26-2019 10:47 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Faith, posted 12-27-2019 2:55 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 278 of 531 (869286)
12-27-2019 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by Faith
12-27-2019 2:55 PM


Re: Again Faith needs to backpedal and retract claims
Amazing that you cannot present us with that quote.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Faith, posted 12-27-2019 2:55 PM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 279 of 531 (869287)
12-27-2019 4:11 PM


Why do fundies use C.S. Lewis?
For every Lewis quote fundies think supports their view, there are many more that do not.
Here is a good site that goes through Lewis's non-fundie writings. Unlike Faith the person who wrote this uses actual quotes and gives the original source material.
CS LEWIS – The most beloved heretic – The Reluctant Skeptic
Here are a couple that are especially illuminating'
quote:
The earliest stratum of the Old Testament contains many truths in a form which I take to be legendary, or even mythicalhanging in the clouds
quote:
I have therefore no difficulty in accepting, say, the view of those scholars who tell us that the account of Creation in Genesis is derived from earlier Semitic stories which were Pagan and mythical.
quote:
The human qualities of the raw materials show through. Navety, error, contradiction, even (as in the cursing Psalms) wickedness are not removed. The total result is not the Word of God in the sense that every passage, in itself, gives impeccable science or history
quote:
Say what you like, we shall be told, the apocalyptic beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be false. It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime. And worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their delusion. He said in so many words, ‘this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.’ And he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else. It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible.
quote:
The one exhibition of error and the one confession of ignorance [Mark 13:32] grow side by side. That they stood thus in the mouth of Jesus himself, and were not merely placed thus by the reporter, we surely need not doubt. The facts, then, are these: that Jesus professed himself (in some sense) ignorant, and within a moment showed that he really was so.
Lewis did not believe that the bible was inerrant. Though he was a very fervent christian he believed in evolution and that the people that wrote the bible and the Jesus character were fallible people.
Still waiting on the quotes and sources that support Faith's claims.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 282 of 531 (869329)
12-28-2019 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by Faith
12-27-2019 2:55 PM


Re: Again Faith needs to backpedal and retract claims
I just finished reading "Mere Christianity". What a painful slog through nothingness.
I could find nothing in there that resembles anything close to what you claim. Do you really think we will not examine your claims. After I finished reading it I did a word search to see if I missed something in my reading.
I searched, history, fiction and bible. There was nothing that resembles your claims.
Care to try again?
Care to retract the claim?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Faith, posted 12-27-2019 2:55 PM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 339 of 531 (871301)
01-31-2020 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 328 by foreveryoung
01-31-2020 1:15 AM


Cult
Maybe you should confirm before you accuse? Without the context of what was said or who actually said it, we have no way of knowing if being told you were in a cult is justified or not.
Believing in biblical miracle is down the road to cultishness in my view.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 328 by foreveryoung, posted 01-31-2020 1:15 AM foreveryoung has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 340 by jar, posted 01-31-2020 3:57 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 342 of 531 (871312)
01-31-2020 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by jar
01-31-2020 3:57 PM


Re: Cult
Wow!
LOL. What a maroon.
I knew the context was other than what he made it seem.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by jar, posted 01-31-2020 3:57 PM jar has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 361 of 531 (871411)
02-02-2020 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by Phat
02-02-2020 3:45 AM


Re: Think Phat, think!
I suppose when the economy does go to shit, you and your ilk will blame the "socialists". You will completely exonerate donnie, the conservatives corporations and the wealthy. They will all be waiting for the handout they will be giving themselves.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Phat, posted 02-02-2020 3:45 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by Phat, posted 02-02-2020 2:02 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9362
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 363 of 531 (871420)
02-02-2020 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 362 by ringo
02-02-2020 1:18 PM


Re: Tit For Tat starring ringo and phat.
Why is it that the nutball fundies always need to claim that nonbelievers are suppressing belief or are mad at their god?
Many non-believers have never had a belief in a god. How can we be suppressing something that never was. And why the hell would I be mad at some entity that does not exist. Then Phat will turn it all around and say he is being oppressed.
All a bunch of freakin' nutballs.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by ringo, posted 02-02-2020 1:18 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 364 by ringo, posted 02-02-2020 1:59 PM Theodoric has replied
 Message 368 by Phat, posted 02-02-2020 2:18 PM Theodoric has replied

  
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