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Author Topic:   Charismatic Chaos
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 331 of 531 (871283)
01-31-2020 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 330 by jar
01-31-2020 8:01 AM


Re: Discussing GOD,God, and god.(whoever the capitalized ones are)
jar writes:
But again you misrepresent what I have said repeatedly. Why do you try to rewrite my position to fit your needs? I have never said we will be judged based on our beliefs and do not think beliefs will have any relevance at all.
Where they disagree with you is that they would maintain that belief in Jesus Christ does in fact have relevance.
I reviewed some of the scripture and found the followingBlueLetterBible)
quote:
The Bible speaks of the fact that all humanity will be judged, and they will be judged by God the Son, Jesus Christ. The judgment in the next life will be based upon the deeds done in this life. Therefore our eternal destiny is determined here on earth, not after we die. The standard of judgment is as follows.
1. According To The Truth They Have Received
Each will be judged according to the information they have received. Jesus said.
Matthew 11:21-24 writes:
Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty deeds done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, on the day of judgment it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? No, you will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty deeds done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that on the day of judgment it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom than for you
The Scriptural truth is that to whom much has been given, much will be required. This is fair, I suppose..but does this mean I will be judged harsher than someone who is merely illiterate?
Luke12:48 writes:
But the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. And from everyone who has been given much shall much be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more
2. Judgment Will Be Fair
We must note that judgment will be fair. The psalmist wrote.
Psalm 96:13 writes:
They will sing before the LORD, for He comes, He comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness and the peoples in His truth
The Apostle Paul also emphasized this truth. And I can hear you now...telling me that I am again using the Bible as the whole teaching and not breaking it down into various cultural eras. I maintain, however, that God lives beyond the book. People may have understood Him differently and with differing degrees of certainty and mythos, but if we are judged only in what we do, I would argue that I will get penalized for whining at EvC Forum. Again, not fair!
Acts 17:31 writes:
Because He has fixed a day on which He will have the world judged in righteousness by a man whom He has appointed, and of this He has given assurance to all by raising Him from the dead
.
Jeremiah quoted God as saying.
Jeremiah 17:10 writes:
I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward a person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve
So this lends support to your beliefs.
3. According To One's Works
The Bible says that each of us will be judged according to our works.
Romans 2:6-11 writes:
For He will repay according to each one's deeds: but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality.
In the Book of Revelation we read.
Rev 2:23 writes:
I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am He who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds
Lest we might think that God will weigh our good deeds against our bad deeds, He has told us what the work of God consists.
John 6:28-29 writes:
Then they said to Him [Jesus], "What must we do to perform the works of God?" Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent"
The work of God is to believe in Him whom He has sent - Jesus Christ.
4. According To God's Standards - Jesus Christ
Humanity will be judged according to God's standards, not ours. We will be measured against Christ, not compared with one another. Jesus said.
Luke 12:8-9 writes:
And I tell you, everyone who acknowledges Me before others, the Son of Man also will acknowledge before the angels of God; but whoever denies Me before others will be denied before the angels of God
Those who reject Jesus Christ will be judged.
John 12:48 writes:
The one who rejects Me and does not receive My word has a judge; on the last day, the Word that I have spoken will serve as judge
Not bad for a book allegedly compiled, edited, and redacted only by humans.
Relationship To Christ
The basis of God's judgment will be their relationship with Christ.
John 3:18-19 writes:
Those who believe in Him are not condemned, but those who do not believe are condemned already because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil
For by grace you have are saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God - not the result of works, so that no one may boast (Ephesians 2:8,9).
He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the water of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5).
Summary
The Bible is clear on this issue. Where a person spends eternity depends upon how they view Jesus Christ. Those who receive Him as Savior will not be condemned. However, those who reject His free gift of salvation will be condemned for all eternity. Scripture also emphasizes that God's judgment will be fair - there will be no partiality.
Edited by Thugpreacha, : broken quote

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.lvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by jar, posted 01-31-2020 8:01 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 332 by jar, posted 01-31-2020 9:30 AM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34046
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 332 of 531 (871284)
01-31-2020 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 331 by Phat
01-31-2020 9:24 AM


Re: Discussing GOD,God, and god.(whoever the capitalized ones are)
Phat writes:
The Bible is clear on this issue.
Yet even though you cherry picked only those verses you thought might support your position, even some that you included refute your position.
No Phat, the Bible is very seldom clear on this issue or anything else.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by Phat, posted 01-31-2020 9:24 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 333 by Phat, posted 01-31-2020 9:58 AM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 333 of 531 (871285)
01-31-2020 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 332 by jar
01-31-2020 9:30 AM


Re: Discussing GOD,God, and god.(whoever the capitalized ones are)
jar writes:
Yet even though you cherry-picked only those verses you thought might support your position, even some that you included refuting your position.
No Phat, the Bible is very seldom clear on this issue or anything else.
I included them because I believe that it is both works and belief in conjunction that sum up the teaching. You have used Matthew 25 to justify that belief does not matter, but I often wonder why you initially chose to "cherry-pick" that verse so often.
Again, I observe that you reserve a disdain for any lazy guy who gets saved only by grace through faith.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.lvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott

This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by jar, posted 01-31-2020 9:30 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 334 by jar, posted 01-31-2020 10:24 AM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34046
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 334 of 531 (871286)
01-31-2020 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 333 by Phat
01-31-2020 9:58 AM


Re: Discussing GOD,God, and god.(whoever the capitalized ones are)
Phat writes:
I included them because I believe that it is both works and belief in conjunction that sum up the teaching. You have used Matthew 25 to justify that belief does not matter, but I often wonder why you initially chose to "cherry-pick" that verse so often.
Again, I observe that you reserve a disdain for any lazy guy who gets saved only by grace through faith.
But I don't pick just Matt 25 and you and I have discussed this repeatedly. The Bible is filled with contradictory writings and ambiguous writings and some facts and lots of fantasy.
And again, I have to wonder how you can so consistently misrepresent my position.
If anyone is saved it will be solely through Grace. But Grace through Faith has absolutely no meaning or value or worth that I can see. And there are as many passages in the Bible that support my position as refute it. The Bible is simply a compendium of what humans wrote reflecting the era and mythos they lived in and experienced.
Works gain you nothing; they are a charge and a task that Jesus placed on his followers. Failure in those tasks can damn you but doing them gains you nothing. BUT, they do make this life better for others. It's all we can do.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 333 by Phat, posted 01-31-2020 9:58 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 337 by Phat, posted 01-31-2020 11:16 AM jar has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 488 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 335 of 531 (871287)
01-31-2020 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 326 by Phat
01-31-2020 12:39 AM


Re: Discussing GOD,God, and god.(whoever the uncapitalized one is!)
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
As I pointed out, you felt what you were taught to feel.
That's quite an assertion coming from you.
It isn't my assertion. It's what you said, in Message 312: "The reason that I believe this is not entirely due to the indoctrination of religious dogma by the churches that I have attended."
You experienced what you were taught to expect.
Phat writes:
... you seem to dismiss any experiences I have had which differed from what you or anyone else has had.
I don't dismiss your experiences. I dismiss your interpretation of your experiences - not because they are different from anybody else's but because they're the same. You interpret your experiences the same way as other fundies interpret their experiences because you have been taught to interpret them that way.
Phat writes:
... you have no idea what I have believed, (apart from my words here at the Forum) the experiences I have had hearing actual voices (also heard by two others) and feeling my hair stand on end.
On the contrary, I have a pretty good idea because I have heard the same interpretation from a lot of other people.
Phat writes:
Nor the confirming events which supported my otherwise illogical beliefs.
Well, there you go. Your pre-existing beliefs were supported. Confirmation bias.
Phat writes:
There are unexplained events in life...
This is what bugs me most about believers. If there are things in life that are "unexplained", why do you insist on explaining them? And why do you refuse to accept any explanation but your own?
Phat writes:
Jesus. (Whom you don't believe existed anyway, so I find it a waste of time to argue with you about it)
That is not how debate works. You're supposed to debate the point made regardless of whether your counterpart believes it or not.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
The issue is that you deny what Jesus said
Unlike Tangle, I don't believe that Jesus was simply a character in a book. What Jesus says to me is more than some ancient written down scripture.
Maybe you really don't understand how absurd that sounds. You actually put the voices in your head before the only external source you have. What arrogance. What hubris.
Phat writes:
You and your Dad must have been a pair! He taught you how to read the bible in a common-sense way...
No he didn't. His beliefs were pretty similar to yours.
Phat writes:
... and you turned it against organized religion and the church.
I turned it against stupidity and lies.
Phat writes:
You will be surprised someday when your precious global socialists end up fighting along with the rest of the people as resources grow scarce.
Resources have always been scarce. The way humans react is by getting together and producing more resources.
Phat writes:
It will only be then when you may find your charge against me will apply to you.
I have not made any charge against you. I don't know why you're so defensive about that.
Phat writes:
He exists.
No. He doesn't. He never did. But the principle attributed to Him is a good one.
Phat writes:
ringo is not in charge nor free to rebel without consequences.
ringo is responsible for doing it himself. Nobody else is going to do it for him.
Phat writes:
And no, global socialism will never work as long as human nature is as it is.
It already does. Get a grip on reality.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 326 by Phat, posted 01-31-2020 12:39 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 341 by Phat, posted 01-31-2020 3:59 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 488 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 336 of 531 (871288)
01-31-2020 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 328 by foreveryoung
01-31-2020 1:15 AM


foreveryoung writes:
It seems to me the criteria for labeling someone as being in a cult is simply believing the miracles in the bible are true.
No. The criterion for recognizing that somebody is in a (mind-control) cult is that they refuse to look at any sources outside the cult.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 328 by foreveryoung, posted 01-31-2020 1:15 AM foreveryoung has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 337 of 531 (871289)
01-31-2020 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 334 by jar
01-31-2020 10:24 AM


Gloom, Doom, Hope and Rebirth
jar writes:
Works gain you nothing; they are a charge and a task that Jesus placed on his followers. Failure in those tasks can damn you but doing them gains you nothing. BUT, they do make this life better for others. It's all we can do.
That's logical. It's like that whole global warming thing...sometimes it feels like making changes is just a drop in the bucket and uncomfortable for us to do. I reuse my plastic bags for now, but the state legislature already passed a bill to charge everyone for plastic use, so the change is happening slowly.
We have bigger fish to fry. You always remind us that the proverbial bill will get paid. Global Money is inflationary, easy, and cheap. Billionaires are pushing millionaires out of choice properties. The global debt is staggering. The Bill itself is larger than the total money supply of the population's savings.
The Jesus whom the apologists say will come back may not come as soon as we need Him.
Global Warming is an unavoidable reality. Global conflict seems increasingly likely.

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.lvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott

This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by jar, posted 01-31-2020 10:24 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 338 by jar, posted 01-31-2020 11:22 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34046
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 338 of 531 (871290)
01-31-2020 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 337 by Phat
01-31-2020 11:16 AM


Just Do It!
Phat writes:
The Jesus whom the apologists say will come back may not come as soon as we need Him.
The only evidence available is what is written about Jesus in the Bible Phat and no where in any of it does it show Jesus ever solving our problems. The closest example might be the Loaves and Fishes parable but even there it is the disciples who distribute the food and gather up the left overs to feed more later.
The deplorable factor that defines the CCoI and the Apologists is that they all expect Jesus or God to make everything better.
The stories though repeatedly tell us to make everything better.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by Phat, posted 01-31-2020 11:16 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9272
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 339 of 531 (871301)
01-31-2020 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 328 by foreveryoung
01-31-2020 1:15 AM


Cult
Maybe you should confirm before you accuse? Without the context of what was said or who actually said it, we have no way of knowing if being told you were in a cult is justified or not.
Believing in biblical miracle is down the road to cultishness in my view.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 328 by foreveryoung, posted 01-31-2020 1:15 AM foreveryoung has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 340 by jar, posted 01-31-2020 3:57 PM Theodoric has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34046
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 340 of 531 (871309)
01-31-2020 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 339 by Theodoric
01-31-2020 3:15 PM


Re: Cult
He is referring to the CCoI, the Christian Cult of Ignorance.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by Theodoric, posted 01-31-2020 3:15 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 342 by Theodoric, posted 01-31-2020 4:00 PM jar has not replied
 Message 343 by Phat, posted 01-31-2020 4:09 PM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 341 of 531 (871311)
01-31-2020 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by ringo
01-31-2020 11:11 AM


Re: Discussing GOD,God, and god.(whoever the uncapitalized one is!)
ringo writes:
If there are things in life that are "unexplained", why do you insist on explaining them? And why do you refuse to accept any explanation but your own?
All that I really do is explain how I believe and interpret these events. Many do happen to agree with me, but it is not because of what we were taught so much as it is what we experienced. Call it confirmation bias if you must, but believers who have had a born again experience sounds similar because what they experienced was similar.
I think this is something that unbelievers do not understand. They have a lot of pre-assumptions, to begin with. Namely:
  • That God is relative to one's culture and that any name or religion will suffice at cultural description. They simply can't grasp the idea that God may be the same globally, yesterday today and forever. Granted I will concede that cultural awareness has changed in light of new human understanding, but the salvation experience among Christians globally by and large has been the same. (Catholicism is somewhat different.)
  • The branches (or as jar calls them "Clubs" ) of Christianity differ in ritual and teaching. The need for salvation, transformation, confirmation, or internal awareness is debatable as is the idea that humans need such a transformation, but it is far from as simple as pitting the conmen apologists against the rational traditionalists. It basically gets down to the philosophy of thought regarding who God is, who Jesus is, whether they "live" and are active today apart from human mythos, how we would know or whether we can know, and what constitutes evidence for and against such beliefs.
    In short, we explain our experience. We affirm that it occurred before we were taught what to expect or how to behave. We believe that even in our charismatic churches, perhaps 20% of the congregation understands it as we do but among these believers, there is little if any controversy. Controversy only happens in places like EvC where awareness is limited.
    ringo writes:
    And why do you refuse to accept any explanation but your own?
    Because there is only one explanation.
    I will now confess something that happened just last night in a dream. I awoke EvC Forum and ringo on my mind. God had clearly told me that you were right regarding my refusal to listen to what Jesus told me to do. Mind you, I would question it if anyone walked up to me and told me it, but I *knew* that it was Jesus speaking to me in my sub-conscience. And I won't bother explaining or defending such a belief. It is what it is. He has been impressing a lot on my rebellious fleshly state of mind lately, and I choose to listen and trust this inner voice, despite the fact that to outside observers I would appear to be slightly daft.

    The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.lvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 335 by ringo, posted 01-31-2020 11:11 AM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 349 by ringo, posted 01-31-2020 7:02 PM Phat has replied

      
    Theodoric
    Member
    Posts: 9272
    From: Northwest, WI, USA
    Joined: 08-15-2005
    Member Rating: 2.8


    Message 342 of 531 (871312)
    01-31-2020 4:00 PM
    Reply to: Message 340 by jar
    01-31-2020 3:57 PM


    Re: Cult
    Wow!
    LOL. What a maroon.
    I knew the context was other than what he made it seem.

    Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
    "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
    If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 340 by jar, posted 01-31-2020 3:57 PM jar has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18388
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 343 of 531 (871313)
    01-31-2020 4:09 PM
    Reply to: Message 340 by jar
    01-31-2020 3:57 PM


    Re: Cult
    jar, referring to foreveryoungs charge of being branded writes:
    He is referring to the CCoI, the Christian Cult of Ignorance.
    As I said before, the reality of what ends up being true versus what is exposed as conman fraud is far from simply being defined in light of logic, reason, and reality. We live in a world where rationality is being suspended. take the creation of New Money Along with the specter of Climate Change, New Money will lead to the breakdown of society as we know it. The Bill will come due and the Climate will change and the nutters will continue to distort the truth and so will the skeptics, atheists, and rationalists. The jury is still out regarding the Rapture, but I can just about bet you that within the next 30 years, in addition to more powerful hurricanes, bankrupt economies, bills long overdue getting foreclosed upon, and aging nuclear stockpiles in the hands of populist leaders, humanity will face its greatest challenge.
    And I expect at least one electromagnetic pulse event that will wipe out our electrical grid and fry all of our cellphones...itself an event of apocalyptic potential to Millenials. You and i clearly disagree on the degree of God's involvement, but for believers, the god whom we believe is in communion with us in our minds will play a BIG role. Pick your side now, jar.

    The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.lvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 340 by jar, posted 01-31-2020 3:57 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 344 by jar, posted 01-31-2020 4:15 PM Phat has replied

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 34046
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 6.2


    Message 344 of 531 (871317)
    01-31-2020 4:15 PM
    Reply to: Message 343 by Phat
    01-31-2020 4:09 PM


    Re: Cult
    Phat writes:
    Pick your side now, jar.
    Picked long ago Phat, it's the side that does not reduce GOD to merely Jeeves.

    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 343 by Phat, posted 01-31-2020 4:09 PM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 345 by Phat, posted 01-31-2020 4:39 PM jar has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18388
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 345 of 531 (871322)
    01-31-2020 4:39 PM
    Reply to: Message 344 by jar
    01-31-2020 4:15 PM


    Re: Cult
    jar writes:
    Picked long ago Phat, it's the side that does not reduce GOD to merely Jeeves.
    I understand that. But surely there is a middle ground between God as living and active bestower of favor and an unknown (and unknowable) afterlife judge. Hypothetically, what would you do if reality proved that ultimately God was alive through the Holy Spirit, only a few stumbled upon this truth (either by accident or design) and the believers had a handicap of ignorance while the truly smart ones didn't allow themselves to believe in such a God?
    In other words, what if its not simply what we *do* but on how we treat each other and find a communion to relate to such a God? Or would you simply laugh in His face? Would we be judged on how we treated the planet and tried to preserve life for others? Would we be judged on how we reacted to money? Would we be judged based on how we responded to God as we understood Him?

    The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.lvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 344 by jar, posted 01-31-2020 4:15 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 346 by jar, posted 01-31-2020 5:02 PM Phat has replied

      
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