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Author Topic:   Charismatic Chaos
jar
Member
Posts: 34120
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 287 of 531 (869385)
12-29-2019 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by Phat
12-29-2019 2:44 PM


The best questions are generally threatening
Phat writes:
God is good. Not "complete" as jar suggests. That's simply too threatening. Which is another clue.
The fact that your only rebuttal is that it's simply too threatening should be a clue to YOU that the reason you reject the concept is that it scares you, not that it is unreasonable or impossible or not supported by logic and evidence and so you create the God in YOUR image.
Edited by jar, : No reason given.
Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Phat, posted 12-29-2019 2:44 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by Phat, posted 12-29-2019 3:32 PM jar has replied
 Message 292 by Phat, posted 01-21-2020 4:43 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34120
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 291 of 531 (869397)
12-29-2019 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by Phat
12-29-2019 3:32 PM


Re: The best questions are generally threatening
Phat writes:
So you reject the "dogma" that God is good all the time and all the time God is good?
What is the evidence from the Bible Phat?
The Dogma is simply a denial of what is actually written in the Bible and creating a God in the Apologists image.
And the evidence seems to scare you. Again, note that you did not provide any evidence or logic or reasoning and just revert to "Apologists said it first".

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by Phat, posted 12-29-2019 3:32 PM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34120
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 294 of 531 (870533)
01-21-2020 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by Phat
01-21-2020 4:43 PM


Re: Is God Good or Complete?
Phat writes:
But getting back to this---why is God complete rather than good? A case can be made scripturallly for both positions.
What scripture? Are you going back to the pick the scripture you like conjob that is the Hall Mark of the Charismatic?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by Phat, posted 01-21-2020 4:43 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by Phat, posted 01-21-2020 5:02 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34120
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 296 of 531 (870539)
01-21-2020 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by Phat
01-21-2020 5:02 PM


Re: Is God Good or Complete?
Phat writes:
How can you possibly determine which scripture to pick then? What is the purpose of scripture?
First scripture is any writings assumed to be related to divinity. The Qur'an and Book of the Dead and Eight Fold Path and Bhagavad Git all have similar standing, similar authority, similar validity.
People pick and choose based on the God or Theology they wish to create.
It's possible to learn from the content of all scripture and the purpose of all scripture is to market the position favored by the author.
The readers task is to test the content against reason, logic and reality.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by Phat, posted 01-21-2020 5:02 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34120
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 302 of 531 (870945)
01-26-2020 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by Phat
01-26-2020 3:44 PM


Have you ever, ever actually read the Bible Phat?
Phat writes:
When the snake declared that A&E would be as gods, the snake meant (in my opinion) that they would live eternally one way or another...either as in rebellion or in communion with universal truth and love.
Sheesh Phat.
quote:
Genesis 3
1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
The serpent say that they will know the difference between good and evil.
Now, as expected, you can take pieces parts out of context or actually read what is written. But read it all.
quote:
Genesis 2:
15And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Is there any mention in Genesis 2 or Genesis 3 of communion or universal truth and love?
Now did Adam die the day he ate the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge?
Did Adam learn to tell the difference between good and evil?
In the story, who told the truth?
Why do you and all the Apologists and all of the CCoI insist on rewtiting the Bible in YOUR image?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by Phat, posted 01-26-2020 3:44 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 303 by Phat, posted 01-27-2020 3:02 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34120
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 304 of 531 (870974)
01-27-2020 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 303 by Phat
01-27-2020 3:02 AM


Re: Have you ever, ever actually read the Bible Phat?
Phat writes:
Explain how Adam learned the difference. He certainly did not seem to show it.
After eating Adam like Eve knew they had done wrong and were naked and so they hid.
Phat writes:
Not necessarily. They knew of good and they knew of evil. Not everyone can explain the difference. Obviously the serpent wouldn't want them to know what evil was. Think about it. (Unless of course, you don't equate the serpent with evil)
I simply acknowledge what is wriien in the story. The story does not say they only knew of good and evil but rather in fact the God character says they had become like Gods to KNOW good and evil.
Stop writing in the pieces parts you want to be in the story.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by Phat, posted 01-27-2020 3:02 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by Phat, posted 01-27-2020 10:47 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34120
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 308 of 531 (870998)
01-27-2020 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 307 by Phat
01-27-2020 10:47 AM


Re: Have you ever, ever actually read the Bible Phat?
Phat writes:
Does Genesis then advocate polytheism?
Much of the earlier writings in the Old Testament books acknowledges Polytheism. The issue is even a major point throughout many of the stories that Jehovah was the God of the Jews; "I am the Lord, THY God. That shalt have no other Gods BEFORE me."
Phat writes:
What was the source of this wrong?
1) The fruit itself
2) Listening to the snake?
3) Disobeying God?
4) All of the above
Talk about utter nonsense and irrelevancies. The first example is really stupid. Think Phat. What the serpent said was the truth and in the story acknowledged as being true.
But I think you are still under the really silly idea that the story is really about God or obedience or sin and not about the transition from the earlier nomadic hunter gatherer lifestyle to the latter settled farming lifestyle.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by Phat, posted 01-27-2020 10:47 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 317 by Phat, posted 01-30-2020 9:51 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34120
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 311 of 531 (871009)
01-27-2020 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 309 by Phat
01-27-2020 11:44 AM


Re: Have you ever, ever actually read the Bible Phat?
Phat writes:
After all, did God not view everything he created as "good"?
Full stop Phat. Once again you are mixing up pieces parts from two totally unrelated stories written hundreds or thousands of years apart by entirely different cultures.
Genesis 1 has absolutely nothing to do with the much older tales that make up Genesis 2&3. You are trying to conflate Gone With the Wind with the White Seal.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by Phat, posted 01-27-2020 11:44 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 312 by Phat, posted 01-30-2020 6:48 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34120
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 313 of 531 (871213)
01-30-2020 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 312 by Phat
01-30-2020 6:48 AM


Re: Discussing GOD,God, and god.(whoever the uncapitalized one is!)
You quoted a piece of what I had said and then run on and on and on without ever addressing what you quoted or the issue raised by that quote.
Phat writes:
Perhaps you will reinforce your reasoning by asking the ongoing question as to how one would know?
I hate that question.
Why do you hate that question?
Phat writes:
The reason that I continually argue with you about this stuff is that I fail to see what you mean by claiming belief.
Really, or perhaps you simply hate my oft repeated explanation of what I believe?
Do you find the very existence of my belief unnerving?
Do you hate those questions as well?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 312 by Phat, posted 01-30-2020 6:48 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 314 by Phat, posted 01-30-2020 9:16 AM jar has replied
 Message 315 by Phat, posted 01-30-2020 9:19 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34120
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 316 of 531 (871220)
01-30-2020 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 314 by Phat
01-30-2020 9:16 AM


Re: Discussing GOD,God, and god.(whoever the uncapitalized one is!)
Phat writes:
I don't quite get what you dislike about Biblical Christianity.
I dislike the fact that they misrepresent what is actually written in the Bible and NEVER, EVER actually teach what is reported to have been said by Jesus.
I dislike the fact that they create and market a total complete fantasy and deny the fact that throughout the Bible the lesson is that humans must do what is needed. Who built and filled the graineries?
We need to build and fill the graineries.
We need to heal the sick.
We need to clothe the naked.
We need to shelter the homeless.
We need to protect the weak.
We need to feed the hungry.
Biblical Christianity today markets only the Lillies of the Field and sells the Get Outta Hell Cards.
It is a perversion of what is actually contained in the Bible stories or what Jesus preached.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 314 by Phat, posted 01-30-2020 9:16 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 318 by Phat, posted 01-30-2020 9:53 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34120
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 320 of 531 (871226)
01-30-2020 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 318 by Phat
01-30-2020 9:53 AM


Re: Discussing GOD,God, and god.(whoever the uncapitalized one is!)
Phat writes:
Nobody wants to be taught that Christianity is but an obligation to society and is hard and often thankless work.
Exactly. That is why the easy sell product is what Biblical Christianity markets.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 318 by Phat, posted 01-30-2020 9:53 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 324 by Phat, posted 01-30-2020 11:06 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34120
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 322 of 531 (871228)
01-30-2020 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 317 by Phat
01-30-2020 9:51 AM


Re: Have you ever, ever actually read the Bible Phat?
Word salad again Phat and utter nonsense.
Reality Phat.
Judah and Israel were different societies with different beliefs and different practices.
Phat writes:
I believe though cannot prove that God actually does bother communing in some way with the humans increasingly throughout history.
No one doubts that you do believe that Phat. But ...

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 317 by Phat, posted 01-30-2020 9:51 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34120
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 325 of 531 (871233)
01-30-2020 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 324 by Phat
01-30-2020 11:06 AM


Re: Discussing GOD,God, and god.(whoever the capitalized ones are)
Phat writes:
If One cannot actually feel any connection with God and is expected to simply do community service as a religion, why even have the religion.
Many, many do just that Phat. But what does that have to do with beliefs?
Phat writes:
You can and have told me that you believe in GOD but realize that She is likely unlike anything humans teach, but to me, your belief is no more special than believing in the spirit of Santa Claus and dressing up like him to entertain the children.
Am I you?
How many times have I said that I believe that after death I will be judged by God?
Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 324 by Phat, posted 01-30-2020 11:06 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 327 by Phat, posted 01-31-2020 12:49 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34120
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 330 of 531 (871276)
01-31-2020 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 327 by Phat
01-31-2020 12:49 AM


Re: Discussing GOD,God, and god.(whoever the capitalized ones are)
Phat writes:
And yet you ridicule the apologetic definitions of God's (and Jesus's) character.
Correct!
Phat writes:
At that time, you might consider the question you always ask me: How Will You Know It Is God?
Well, the first clue might be the fact that I'm dead and getting judged. Really Phat, think.
Phat writes:
I do agree with you that we will be judged on what we believe, what we did, weighing our deeds against our ignored actions that we could have done, and knowing that the Judge will have perfect knowledge of our intentions as well as our actions.
But again you misrepresent what I have said repeatedly. Why do you try to rewrite my position to fit your needs? I have never said we will be judged based on our beliefs and do not think beliefs will have any relevance at all.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 327 by Phat, posted 01-31-2020 12:49 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 331 by Phat, posted 01-31-2020 9:24 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34120
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 332 of 531 (871284)
01-31-2020 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 331 by Phat
01-31-2020 9:24 AM


Re: Discussing GOD,God, and god.(whoever the capitalized ones are)
Phat writes:
The Bible is clear on this issue.
Yet even though you cherry picked only those verses you thought might support your position, even some that you included refute your position.
No Phat, the Bible is very seldom clear on this issue or anything else.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by Phat, posted 01-31-2020 9:24 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 333 by Phat, posted 01-31-2020 9:58 AM jar has replied

  
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