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Author | Topic: The Power/Reality Of Demons And Supernatural Evil. | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
No. I'm saying that the evidence is no longer avaialable, so it does not carry the same weight for people today. All we have left is the second-hand, third-hand, etc. watering-down of the actual evidence and no, we certainly can not believe that without corroboration.
In other words you can never believe anything anyone ever tells you about something you haven't seen.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
But you haven't pointed out anything ridiculous or spurious about it. And I am saying that is ridiculously spurious reasoning. Thomas didn't believe the disciples. He waited for the first-hand evidence that they claimed to have seen. Clearly, he thought that hearsay was less reliable than hard evidence. And Jesus didn't rebuke him for his skepticism; rather He offered the hard evidence. Why should we have lower standards than Thomas?
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
What would that feel like?
If you felt that you had a conversion experience... Phat writes:
You're always better off getting to the truth of a matter instead of clinging to a subjective impression.
...and if that inner feeling persisted for the next week...then a month...would you by challenging and doubting it be any better off?
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I asked how you would recognize that difference.
You don't get it though---I was different. Phat writes:
So why is that awareness not manifest in your understanding here?
I'm talking 180 degrees different. A totally new awareness. Phat writes:
I keep asking, if Jesus was alive in your heart and mind - whatever that means - how would you know? How would you tell the difference between that and Loki being alive in your heart and mind?
Is Jesus alive in my heart and mind or is it just me and always was and will be me? Phat writes:
Why would the "gift" be given to certain people and not to others? Why would the gift be given mostly to people whose relatives and neighbours had been given the same gift? Why would it be a gift at all and not just standard equipment?
You don't expect any obligation from God to leave objective evidence unless he planned on blessing everybody with the same gift. Phat writes:
Does it?
Scripture clearly says that few will be chosen.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It isn't "my position". It's what the Bible says.
We know yor position regarding this. Phat writes:
You're the one who thinks that Satan exists as a single entity. I have told you before that the Big Bad Wolf who dies in Little Red Riding Hood is not necessarily the same Big Bad Wolf who dies in The Three Little Pigs.
But consider: Satan was "like God" in a sense. Phat writes:
If they learned to think for themselves, they were ready to graduate.
A&E fell only in the sense that they learned to think for themselves before they were ready to graduate. Phat writes:
So go ahead, make an argument that independence is a bad thing.
We can argue all day whether or not growing up in the sense of growing independent is always a good thing. Phat writes:
I think I have. No evidence that unicorns exist is the same as no evidence that Christ existed. You're the one who needs to explain how that is not logical and rational.
ringo writes:
You really need to explain yourself here. Denying Jesus Christ is rational and logical. Phat writes:
There's no "choice" involved. It's what the Bible says. How can becoming like God be a fall?
There you go again, falling back on your chosen understanding. Phat writes:
Correct. There isn't.
If there was no fall, there would be no need for a redeemer. Phat writes:
Yup. Been there. Done that.
Are you prepared to defend that premise? Phat writes:
To begin with, the talking snake should be your first clue that it wasn't meant to be taken literally.
What is the story meant to teach? Phat writes:
Who is your phone bill meant for? Maybe some detective can glean some useful information from it to solve some crime. Or maybe in the future some archaeologist might gain some insights about our society from it. But isn't it fairly obvious that it's meant for the addressee?
Is it teaching limited to the audience for which it was written? Phat writes:
That appeal to popularity is getting tiresome. You can stop using it any time. If in fact, the "apologists" got it all wrong, why are they all in agreement with each other while you and a few other skeptics remain outliers? If the apologists' arguments are so persuasive, why can't you repeat them in your own words?"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Sure it does. If you're going to claim that your "experiences" with God have "transformed" you (presumably into a better human being), then there should be some external sign of that transformation. By your fruits we shall know you. Do you know who said that? My "fruit" needs no defending from me. We're warned to beware of false prophets so yes, you do need to show the world that you're not one of them.
Phat writes:
No, I don't claim anything. I have observed - and it's a fairly common observation - that humans are a social species that has a better chance of survival if we help each other. I have also observed that there are no signs of any spooks helping us help each other, so yes, any and all gods are functionally irrelevant. You claim that the job of a human is to help others."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
No. Did it ever occur to anyone that if a supernatural realm and subsequent "war" does exist, evidence would by necessity be rare? What "necessity"? It sounds more like an excuse for no evidence."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
"Proposed fact"? Who are you? Donald Trump?
It is a proposed fact. Phat writes:
But why is it "necessary" that those responses and reactions are not objective? Spirit cannot be detected except through one's response and reactions to it."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I have not said that you don't do "enough". I do object to you denying Jesus and what He told you to do. The dark side is easier, more attractive, and less restrictive than is the narrow path. I myself can attest to this. ringo claims i never follow the message, but I do as much as any of you. But what has that got to do with any supposed "spiritual warfare"?"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
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