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Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: When did Republicans learn to hate Democrats more than Russia? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No they did not have good cause. It was all a setup Writing on borrowee laptop, more later
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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JonF Member (Idle past 168 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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Don't bother unless you have facts.
Which you never do.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5930 Joined: Member Rating: 5.8
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It seems that Mueller could not find evidence of collusion because the Trump campaign was incompetent, not because they didn't want to. But Mueller did find a very large number of instances of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia and he reported on them in some detail. Mueller never stated that he didn't find evidence of collusion. Instead, he could not find sufficient evidence of conspiracy to be able to bring an indictment. In the summary for Volume I, Mueller explained this in some detail. There are no laws against collusion nor is there even a proper legal definition, but rather there are laws and legal definitions for conspiracy. Therefore Mueller chose to concentrate on investigating conspiracy and not collusion. Now, while you cannot prosecute someone criminally for collusion, you can base articles of impeachment on collusion with a hostile foreign power. I'm not sure whether you can count the instances of collusion during the campaign, but there's little doubt that Trump's collusion with Russia has continued and still continues.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
No they did not have good cause. It was all a setup Writing on borrowee laptop, more later What nonsense. The Mueller report documented numerous cases of Russian interference. And documented several cases of questionable actions by Trump/minions. And documented several cases of obstruction of justice. These are facts that you can confirm by reading the report (and not some biased filtered version).
quote: Note: Each Chapter and subchapter can be individually downloaded or viewed online if you go to the volume links. Facts, not conspiracy theory fantasy pushed by GOP apologists and deniers. Read them, heed them, as you wish, but don't ignore them or dismiss them or you lose the argument. Enjoy Edited by Admin, : Fix quote at top of message, the text had somehow been included twice.by our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
But I like you, despite your stupid ideas, and you hate me. ringo writes:
Not as good as you and all the other lefties And you're very good at hate. And as I've told you before, in some ways I'm probably more conservative than you are. You have no clue what a "leftie" is."If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The Mueller report documented numerous cases of Russian interference. BUT NO INVOLVEMENT BY THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN.
And documented several cases of questionable actions by Trump/minions. You START with "questionable actions" looking for evidence of actual wrongdoing that can be criminally charged. THEY FOUND NOTHING TO CHARGE HIM WITH, WHICH IN OUR LEGAL SYSTEM MEANS HE WASW FOUND "NOT GUILTY." EXONERATED. WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE?
And documented several cases of obstruction of justice. IF OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE HAD BEEN FOUND THEY WOULD HAVE LISTED IT AS STARR LISTED CLINTON'S FELONIES, AS A CRIME HE COULD BE CHARGED WI6TH. THEY WOULDN'T HAVE NEEDED ANY MORE TO IMPEACH HIM, THEY WOULDN'T HAVE NEEDED THE BOGUSWHISTLEBLOWER" FIASCO. THEY FOUND NO OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE. WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE? are facts... WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE?
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
The brick keeps falling off our Caps Lock keys. WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE?"If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you...." -- Rudyard Kipling
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Percy Member Posts: 22393 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
JonF writes: Faith writes: ...more later Don't bother unless you have facts. But aren't those posts Exhibit A of the motivation behind this thread? --Percy
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JonF Member (Idle past 168 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
The Mueller report documented numerous cases of Russian interference.
BUT NO INVOLVEMENT BY THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN. You START with "questionable actions" looking for evidence of actual wrongdoing that can be criminally charged. THEY FOUND NOTHING TO CHARGE HIM WITH, WHICH IN OUR LEGAL SYSTEM MEANS HE WAS FOUND "NOT GUILTY." EXONERATED. WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE?
They found insufficient evidence to charge them. Which in our legal system means they are presumed innocent but in the real world everybody knows they are guilty, It especially DOES NOT mean anyone was found "not guilty".
IF OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE HAD BEEN FOUND THEY WOULD HAVE LISTED IT AS STARR LISTED CLINTON'S FELONIES, AS A CRIME HE COULD BE CHARGED WI6TH
The report did list his crtimes and pointed out that that the Congress is the place he should answer for them. Nancy Pelosi decided not to do so not because of any issues with the legal case but because public support for impeachment wasn't high enough for her.
are facts...
WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE? Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2284 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 6.8 |
THEY FOUND NOTHING TO CHARGE HIM WITH, WHICH IN OUR LEGAL SYSTEM MEANS HE WASW FOUND "NOT GUILTY."
nope, Being found "not guilty" only happens after a trial. Being unable to charge is not the same as a finding of innocence.It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds soon I discovered that this rock thing was true Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world And so there was only one thing I could do Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On *not an actual doctor
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Thanks for again proving my point:
Message 19: These are facts that you can confirm by reading the report (and not some biased filtered version). (many links to different parts of the report) Each Chapter and subchapter can be individually downloaded or viewed online if you go to the volume links. Facts, not conspiracy theory fantasy pushed by GOP apologists and deniers. Read them, heed them, as you wish, but don't ignore them or dismiss them or you lose the argument. Evidently you didn't bother to read the report.
The Mueller report documented numerous cases of Russian interference. BUT NO INVOLVEMENT BY THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN. Wrong. Mueller said insufficient evidence of conspiracy to charge them but enough that he couldn't clear them either. He left that to congress to pursue ... which brings us to the impeachment hearings and the current discussion of whether or not to include information from the Mueller report in the charges. See next for more.
And documented several cases of questionable actions by Trump/minions. You START with "questionable actions" looking for evidence of actual wrongdoing that can be criminally charged. THEY FOUND NOTHING TO CHARGE HIM WITH, WHICH IN OUR LEGAL SYSTEM MEANS HE WASW FOUND "NOT GUILTY." EXONERATED. WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE? No, he was not exonerated of conspiracy, Mueller specifically said that he could NOT exonerate them. What's wrong with us is that we look at evidence, what is actually said/written. Not what right wing echo chambers make up and say. Here's part of the report you didn't read:
quote: Note that that is 106 pages of documents of regarding contacts between Russia and the Trump campaign. There were a lot of them, and a lot of them were questionable for a political campaign. For instance, Baby Don meeting with Russian in the Trump Tower and saying that if the Russians had dirt on Hillary that they were interested. Not evidence of conspiracy per se but also not exonerating him of working with the Russians to get dirt on Hillary for campaign purposes. Kind of sounds like what he wanted from Ukraine about Biden ...
And documented several cases of obstruction of justice. IF OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE HAD BEEN FOUND THEY WOULD HAVE LISTED IT AS STARR LISTED CLINTON'S FELONIES, AS A CRIME HE COULD BE CHARGED WI6TH. THEY WOULDN'T HAVE NEEDED ANY MORE TO IMPEACH HIM, THEY WOULDN'T HAVE NEEDED THE BOGUSWHISTLEBLOWER" FIASCO. THEY FOUND NO OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE. WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE? Again they found many instances of obstruction of justice -- volume II which you haven't read is all about the instances of obstruction of justice. Mueller didn't indict him because he was operating on the understanding that he couldn't indict a sitting president, so he provided the information for the Congress to determine if there were impeachable offenses ... which again brings us to the impeachment hearings and the current discussion of whether or not to include information from the Mueller report in the charges. Again from the Mueller report that you haven't read, as detailed in Message 19:
Message 19: quote: Note: Each Chapter and subchapter can be individually downloaded or viewed online if you go to the volume links. Each one of those 12 instances listed under "Factual Results of the Obstruction Investigation" are instances of obstruction of justice. Documented just as they were for Clinton in the Starr report.
are facts... WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE? What's wrong with us is that we look at the actual evidence, what is actually said/written. Not what right wing echo chambers make up and say, and certainly not what prevaricating Trump says. Curiously, I compare Trump to Nixon ... and Trump is worse, and I compare Trump to Clinton ... and Trump is worse. If their offenses warranted impeachment then so does Trump. But, again, you'll deny and ignore ... because you can't handle the truth. So Democrats are not lying about the Mueller Report -- you have been shown to be in error on this. So no, you do not hate Democrats for lying about the Mueller Report. Facts aren't lies. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
It's a simple question, but I remember when republicans proudly proclaimed "Better Dead than Red" So when did Republicans learn to hate Democrats more than Russia? We're living in bizarr-o world right now... from the 50's to the 80's, Republicans loathed anything communistic. But that phrase was interchangalbe depending upon the audience So, its true that its odd how accepting the Republicans became of Russia but its also odd how vilified Russia became for Democrats. Either way it plays into the hands of Russia... they love this divisiveness. "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Hi, Hyro.
...but its also odd how vilified Russia became for Democrats. Just wanted to add a clarification here. It's true that in the 1930s large numbers among the Left remained enamored with the Bolshevik dictatorship far longer than they should have, but I think most in the Democratic Party were never all that fond of the Soviet Union. At most, Roosevelt understood that Nazi Germany was a greater threat to US interests than Soviet Russia. In the 60s and 70s, the Cold War was every bit a Democratic project as it was a Republican one; it was Truman who ramped up the Cold War, after all. Again, at most there were those among the Democrats who objected to using Cold War hysteria as justifications for the subversion of democracy abroad and the erosion of civil liberties at home. Democrats were as eager to contain the Soviet Union as any Republican. If there were any significant disagreements, it was mainly in how to accomplish these goals. Edited by Chiroptera, : Minor typo. Edited by Chiroptera, : Another one.For this generation of far-right nationalists, religion is not a question of ethical conduct; it is purely about identity and peoplehood. -- Jan-Werner Müller
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
but its also odd how vilified Russia became for Democrats.
Are you claiming Democrats embraced Russia(or the Soviet Union) in the past?Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Percy Member Posts: 22393 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Hyroglyphx writes: ...but its also odd how vilified Russia became for Democrats. Again suggest you change your avatar to something less misleading and more honest. --Percy
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