|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,890 Year: 4,147/9,624 Month: 1,018/974 Week: 345/286 Day: 1/65 Hour: 0/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Testing The Christian Apologists | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Why must I accept what Genesis 2-3 says as absolute truth the way that you present it? I have every right to interpret the book the way that I feel it should be interpreted. You can't hold my feet to the fire that you are creating by attempting to explain what a particular passage means.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The evidence is the argument. Evidence always trumps belief.
Throw Your Evidence Away. It does not help the argument. Phat writes:
Your belief is on trial.
And mind you, the book is not the one on trial.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Belief, In General, is on trial. And you too are a defendant. You cant simply knock down the whole concept of belief and proclaim evidence alone as the gold standard for humanity. How can we trust evidence that we ourselves create?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It isn't something I'm "presenting". It's what it says. And nobody gives a flying fuck whether you accept it or not.
Why must I accept what Genesis 2-3 says as absolute truth the way that you present it? Phat writes:
And I have every right to point out that your interpretation is made up.
I have every right to interpret the book the way that I feel it should be interpreted. Phat writes:
I sure can. Watch me.
You can't hold my feet to the fire that you are creating by attempting to explain what a particular passage means.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's my question to you: Since your belief is made up - i.e. not based on scripture - i.e. often in direct contradiction of scripture - how can you trust it? As Jesus said, your house is built on sand.
How can we trust evidence that we ourselves create?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I was born again. May it please the court to tell the prosecutor to sit down? He is complicating the proceedings. Or do you consider yourself the judge, too? I can watch you make a mockery of the judicial system. You need to learn humility. That's why God even sits where he sits. You are not Jesus. And the Judge sits over there. He is not some character in a book.
Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Stop preaching. Discuss the topic honestly.
I was born again. May it please the court to tell the prosecutor to sit down? He is complicating the proceedings. Or do you consider yourself the judge, too? I can watch you make a mockery of the judicial system. You need to learn humility. That's why God even sits where he sits. You are not Jesus. And the Judge sits over there. He is not some character in a book.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I am being honest. God is not made up. Unless the prosecution has evidence to the contrary, I suggest they need a recess. With the court's permission, of course.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
And I have to ask if you are really familiar with the Barmen Declaration? Like the much later Chicago Declarations it begins and end by simply declaring things to be "Truths" without even an attempt at providing evidence to support such positions.
Do you really think you understand Karl Barth?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You believe that God is not made up. I am being honest. God is not made up. It is a fact that God is a character in a book. You can believe that he is something more, but that is only a belief, like the belief in Tooth Fairies or unicorns.
Phat writes:
I don't need a recess. So far, you haven't presented much of a case. Maybe you should stop being so arrogant about your apologetics and actually present something of substance.
Unless the prosecution has evidence to the contrary, I suggest they need a recess.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Not fully, but I can learn. As you know, I consider this whole argument of using evidence only useful once we can agree on what is being presented. I am under no illusion that Biblical Christianity (the way most of us think) can be proven. My contention is with the (in my opinion) warped attempt to use the book to prove a counter theology. You disguise it as Christianity, but it is not.
Can I prove it? No. Does the book contain evidence to support ringos case? Yes and No. The book can be used to make any argument. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
You believe that God is not made up. I have no problem with that. Like I told jar, belief can not be proven. My contention is ith both of your assertions that apologetics is not honest. By what standard is honesty judged? In what context? And in what venue?It is a fact that God is a character in a book. You can believe that he is something more, but that is only a belief, like the belief in Tooth Fairies or unicorns. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: I am being honest. God is not made up. Unless the prosecution has evidence to the contrary, I suggest they need a recess. What does the evidence show Phat? Look at the Bible and try to count how man different and mutually exclusive gods are found. The God of Genesis 1 and the God of Genesis 2&3 and the God of Exodus are all mutually exclusive. The God of Genesis 1 ia apart, aloof and has no contact at all with the things created. The God of Genesis 2&3 is more the feudal lord, powerful and demanding but also approachable and very human. The God of Exodus is the voice from off camera, something that cannot even be looked upon and where you have to take your shoes off just to listen. Each has entirely different senses of morality, different personalities, different mannerisms, different patterns of morality. What evidence shows they are not each "simply made up"?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: I will admit that I am arrogant about God. I lift Him up. I disagree with atheism. But I respect the right of atheists to be atheists and secular humanists to be secular. As I have shown (but which you likely cannot listen to) I am listening to several secular humanists who don't believe. Maybe you should stop being so arrogant about your apologetics and actually present something of substance. My point of contention with you and jar is that you ruin the story by making the snake out to be a hero and God out to be flawed. That isn't Christianity, but it does make for an interesting discussion. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
|
Phat writes: As you know, I consider this whole argument of using evidence only useful once we can agree on what is being presented. Can we not each read what is actually written?
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024