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Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Climate Change Denier comes in from the cold: SCIENCE!!! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
OK but then we can address each of those situations with the carbon-grabbing technology separately without having to butt heads with the producers of the fossil fuel, no?
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
OK but then we can address each of those situations with the carbon-grabbing technology separately without having to butt heads with the producers of the fossil fuel, no? Sequestration alone will not solve the problem. Burning fossil fuels is the problem and needs to be *drastically* reduced. There is no way to do that without costing Big Carbon $$billions. They will not allow that to happen. And they have the means to stop it. The best way I know of to reduce emissions by the amounts needed is through a carbon tax levied on the refineries and coal mines. That would drastically increase the cost of gasoline, oil, heating fuel, natural gas, coal, shale oil. This will spur improvements and efficiencies in alternatives like electric cars, solar for homes and businesses, alternative electric generation. More and more people would switch to avoid the higher costs. To offset the cost to the less fortunate in our society a tax refund equal to the average cost increase would be given. But only to those making less than some number, say $200,000. Additionally, the new taxes would fund tax incentives to utilities to switch to alternative power sources and would fund R&D into more efficient vehicles and additional alternative power sources and sequestration technologies. But Big Carbon has a stranglehold on our political institutions. And the voting public, dumb as a stump, is too disposed to their propaganda and manipulation to change that. We're screwed. Those of us here will not be around for the bad stuff, but, our grandchildren and great-grandchildren will have it much harder than we as ecosystems and social systems come under the strain of near collapse. In the short term, 200-500 years, those poor souls will suffer greatly. In the long term ... well ... the only thing that will be left is for whatever remains of humanity to take a comfortable seat, bend over real far and kiss their ass goodbye. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
Even here in the backwoods of Saskatchewan we've been experimenting with carbon-capture for years. I just heard on the news recently that somebody is experimenting with sequestering captured carbon in concrete buildings. And so on. It was said on the radio and went by very fast. Somebody mentioned that there is now some kind of technology that can remove carbon from the atmosphere. You really need to get a better source of news.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Faith writes: OK but then we can address each of those situations with the carbon-grabbing technology separately without having to butt heads with the producers of the fossil fuel, no? Good ol' thermodynamics still raises its head. When we add oxygen to long chain carbon molecules in fossil fuels we get energy, carbon dioxide, and water out of that reaction. If we want to run it in reverse, then we have to add energy. If we use fossil fuels to sequester carbon dioxide, then we aren't gaining anything. In fact, it would probably increase the carbon dioxide in the air because it wouldn't be 100% efficient.
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0
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Maybe there is some twist to help the problem, but...
quote: Cement - Wikipedia Moose
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Faith, this may be what you heard about:
quote: ie -- it may or may not be a net benefit. Easier and more cost effective is to use proven technology to produce renewable energy electricity and to reduce the use of fossil fuels in all manufacturing and energy generation. Hemp can replace plastics and fuels. Growing hemp also reduces CO2 more than the same acreage of trees, and provides a reliable crop for farmers. win-win.
... without having to butt heads with the producers of the fossil fuel, no? Only if they get their heads out of their butts and join the human race plans for survival instead of profits. Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8564 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
New study shows global warming, even within the target 2oC, will cause greater climate changes than previously expected. Due to the land warming faster than the oceans over the short term, human population and growing regions will be under greater stress than initial indications.
quote: Here's How We're Making That 2C Global Temperature Increase Far Worse For Humans : ScienceAlert The study abstract: Global and regional impacts differ between transient and equilibrium warmer worlds | Nature Climate Change This, also, will fall on deaf ears as short-term greed continues to rule business, governments and populations. We're fucked. Edited by AZPaul3, : added original abstractEschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Since not a single climate-change prophecy has ever come true, why should we believe this one?
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vimesey Member (Idle past 103 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
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Are you happy for that argument to be applied to biblical prophecies ?
Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Does it help climate change prophecy to come true if you change the subject?
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vimesey Member (Idle past 103 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
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I notice you avoid the question.
But here’s a page of evidence it took me two seconds to find:
Analysis: How well have climate models projected global warming? - Carbon Brief Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Since not a single climate-change prophecy has ever come true, ... Like the "prophecy" of average temperature increases that have occurred for the last several years, each year outdoing the previous years?
quote: Like the "prophecy" of sea level rise that has the city of Miami rebuilding roads at higher elevations so they don't flood? https://www.bbc.com/...3-miamis-fight-against-sea-level-riseMiami is racing against time to keep up with sea-level rise Like the islands that have disappeared due to sea level rise? Five Pacific islands disappear as sea levels rise - BBC News The sea is rising because it is being warmed, and warmed water expands. Simple physics. This is augmented by the melting of glaciers (ice that was resting on land) due to higher average temperatures and changes in air temperature distributions (changing jet stream, warmer polar regions, etc). Then there are the increased size, severity and number of fires around the world. Australia, for example, with new record temps recorded and then superseded. Australia fires: 'Catastrophic' alerts in South Australia and Victoria - BBC NewsAustralia weather: 50C temperatures could become the norm as hundreds of climate records broken in 90 days, report finds | The Independent | The Independent What is Australia doing to tackle climate change? - BBC News You have to be willingly ignorant to not be aware of a single effect of climate change.
... why should we believe this one? Because it is based on science and facts, not wishful thinking. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : . Edited by RAZD, : ..by our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4 |
Facts and evidence prove that you are an idiot or a troll or both. Facts and evidence disprove the premise of your statement.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
So I guess we just ignore all the older prophecies that failed completely, and now rely on some much more recent ones that are based on a known trend?
I don't have a problem with SOME rise in temps since I know glaciers have been melting for instance. But I also think in terms of an ice age, just one, that started at the end of the Flood, and encroached very far south before it began to retreat, which it's been doing for some long time. It's now almost completely retreated, and of coruse as it retreats the planet warms. Not that there mightn't be some human input but the ice age retreat was going to happen in spite of us. Yeah I know....
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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So I guess we just ignore all the older prophecies that failed completely, and now rely on some much more recent ones that are based on a known trend? Perhaps because we are talking about scientific predictions rather than belief prophecies. The difference between science and belief is the ability/willingness to change when new information is available. When scientific predictions are based on limited or incomplete information, then they will likely need to change when new information is added. Early predictions were based on data that was incomplete or lacking in certain areas -- the arctic/antarctic poles and the deep ocean for instance. When the predictions don't match the results, the model is revised ... because a model that doesn't predict accurate results is useless. The first models of hurricane behavior were fairly poor at predicting hurricane paths. The ones we have now are much better (... and they are WAY better than orange-top with a sharpie).
I don't have a problem with SOME rise in temps since I know glaciers have been melting for instance. ... Cherry picking what evidence you use again? The overall trend shows a sharp increase in the temperatures around the earth commensurate with the rise in CO2 from burning fossil fuels.
... But I also think in terms of an ice age, just one, ... Except the actual evidence shows many ice ages of different lengths.
quote: Five biggy ice ages and several smaller ones.
... that started at the end of the Flood ... Which never happened.
... and encroached very far south before it began to retreat, which it's been doing for some long time. It's now almost completely retreated, and of coruse as it retreats the planet warms. Except that it's the other way around: as the planet warms the ice melts. Ice doesn't melt on it's own and not only do we have more ice melting than before, but there is less snow each year to replenish the ice.
Not that there mightn't be some human input but the ice age retreat was going to happen in spite of us. Yeah I know.... That you are wrong. Again. And it is the details again Faith. The details show that the major contributor to climate change in the last several thousand years is human activity. That means we should be able to fix it or ameliorate it ... if we get off our hinnies and work on it. Enjoyby our ability to understand RebelAmericanZenDeist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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