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Author | Topic: Believe in UFOs? This editorial's for you! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hyroglyphx Inactive Member
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he human mind has evolved a very strong ‘fill in the blanks’ tendency, very helpful when you hear a rustling in the bushes and can’t tell if its the wind or a lion. No disagreement there.
As a previous poster noted, when while piloting an airplane at night and seeing a small circular light, he couldn’t tell if it was large and far away or small and close. But he still concludes it was the size of a car and 150 feet away. The poster you're referencing was me. It was actually from the deck of a ship though. And in the spirit of that fill-in-the-blanks my first thought was that it was the mast light from a ship. The mind attempts to rationalize what it sees by scouring the mental database of things it knows. But mast lights don't move like that. As to the size, my backdrop was pitch black, so much so that I could barely see the white caps of the waves to distinguish between the water line and the sky. Needless to say attempting to gauge size was extremely difficult. If I absolutely had to guess I would estimate that was a relatively small object at midrange... but I can't certify it and my estimation could have been totally wrong. All I can say for sure is that I've never witnessed anything like that brief, one minute encounter before or since. I can't and therefore won't say what it was -- just that it was so out of the ordinary that it was memorable. And I won't blame you an iota for your skepticism... because I would share the exact same reservations for the exact same reasons. "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined:
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The thing I find most interesting is that most reports of aliens present something humanoidish or recognizable as some sort of creature we have some familiarity.
If there was any other life out there, I would think it would be so alien as to be unimaginable. If it were intelligent life it would be unimaginably different than what we can conceive intelligent life would be like. Evolution tells us we might be the only intelligent life in the universe
quote: Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1770 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I guess it's possible that every single sighting or supposed encounter with a UFO was a misidentification or hallucination. But that seems harder to accept than that some of them were real and not explainable in any normal ways. Hyro's video in Message 27 would have to be a mass hallucination without any psychological or situational reason for it, the witnesses sound extremely sane and credible, and the reports of something that defies any kind of normal explanation.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined:
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No one doubts there are UFO's, What is doubted is that it is some sort of interstellar visitor. I do no think there is any reason to even consider the possibility they are interstellar visitors. Or ghosts. Or demons.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8716 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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But that seems harder to accept than that some of them were real and not explainable in any normal ways. Again, no one is saying that all such incidences are misidentification, hallucination or fake. All we can say is that *some* of these reports are real and not explainable. Understand what that means. No one, except the screw loose, are saying these *unidentified* *unexplained* sightings are alien or demon apparitions. They are unidentified and unexplained. They are not identified and explained as aliens. They are not identified and explained as ghosts. They are unidentified and unexplained. That is all that can be said.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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jar Member (Idle past 165 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined:
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With "interstellar visitors" still being FAR more likely than ghosts or demons.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1770 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Did you watch the video in Message 27?
Focusing on demons is kind of a distraction, since that is my own interpretation of what Jacques Vallee identified as beings as described in folklore. He studied the reports of UFO phenomena and showed that they followed that ancient pattern. Beings that come and go at will, move in ways that violate the laws of physics and so on. Why keep making an issue of my own interpretation of that when this guy addressed all these phenomena and found this particular characteristic in all of them. That seems like an important piece of information to me. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8716 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Did you watch the video ... Yes, of course I watched the video. Very well done. Like any good propagandist he nailed the juxtapositions of image, voiceover and music just right to make his emotional points again and again and ... All the suspense, drama, emotion of a professional hollywood production. The science sucked. This was a UFOlogist's propaganda piece for fame and fortune. The obvious emotion grab, which you, My Dear, fell for is the first telltale. As far as evidence for, let alone proof of, otherworldly notions it means nothing.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Phat Member Posts: 18718 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
I'm beginning to think that your skepticism is one of your stronger traits. We need good skeptics to balance us out.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1770 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The video is rather dramatized, but I still think the men who saw the objects are good witnesses. But how would it look if scientifically studied instead I wonder. Collect all the radar data, interview the men separately in a neutral setting etc. Oh well.
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AnswersInGenitals Member (Idle past 477 days) Posts: 673 Joined:
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That was hyro in Message 27describing his own personal experience on the deck of a ship at sea Thank you for the correction. These sightings were over the water and so radar signals would not be bothered by ground clutter. But there is also sea surface clutter. Have you ever stood on a beach at night when the moon was above the far horizon and seen a path of silvery moon reflection shimmering on the water? Also, stars actually do not twinkle. The twinkling is due to multiple refractions of the star light as it passes through the upper atmosphere.
some kind of unknown flying objects, physical but not behaving according to the laws of physics One of the things that UFO skeptics (i. e., not skeptical that some phenomenon has been seen, but skeptical that the phenomenon is caused by technologically advanced foreign forces, aliens, or even demonic spirits) find most amusing is the way that the motions of the UFOs are interpreted. In almost all these sightings, the UFOs are described as moving in seemingly random, erratic ways involving speeds and accelerations beyond any known current technology. The UFO aficionados never stop to ask Why?. One thing that is clear is that if the UFOs are powered by intelligent beings, they are not very interested in making contact with us. The never stop to greet us with a Howdee do or give a speech to the UN or have an interview on The View. If their quest is to surveil the Earth and/or us Earthlings, and it is hard to think of any other purpose they might have, then it is hard to justify all those frantic motions. If you were a police detective charged with surveilling some place of business that might be involved in suspicious activity, I’m guessing you would conduct that surveillance from the shadows or other clandestine position. You wouldn’t do it in plain sight jumping around like an idiot and wearing a hat with bright flashing lights on it. (Or maybe you would if your the type of person that sees demonic possession in every unexplained occurrence.) exhibiting motions well beyond any known technology I’ll let you in on a super, classified, codeword, SCIF level secret and show you how you can create an object that exhibits motion ‘beyond any known technology’, but it will require a major investment: $1.00 for a laser pointer and $1.00 for a small handheld mirror. On some dark and stormy night (the storm is actually optional) shine the laser light from the pointer onto the mirror and reflected onto a distant wall. Rapidly flick the mirror back and forth and the laser spot on the wall will move at thousands of miles per hour and accelerate at hundreds of g’s. To get to something closer to what is probably causing many of those UFO sightings, shine the laser light through a triangular prism so it is refracted onto the wall. But now we’re go even further and defy the laws of physics. This will require a further investment into two medium size telescopes. Use one telescope to project the laser light onto one edge of the moon. Then flick the mirror about 1/4th degree in about 10 milliseconds so the laser spot flicks to the opposite edge of the moon. Use the second telescope to observe the spot. That spot will have travelled 2,000 miles in 1/100 of a second, i. e., it will have travelled at 200,000 miles per second. The speed of light is ~186,000 miles per second, so you have created something that travels faster than the speed of light! (An extra credit question for the adroit student: Why does this not actually violate relativity and the known laws of physics? Hint: We’ve been a bit cavalier with the definition of ‘object’.) But what about those sightings of UFOs that seem to move purposely and intelligently? Enter the Foo Fighters(not the band). These were objects seen by WWII pilots flying over German territory at night that appeared suddenly, looked like glowing (usually red) oblong spheres that followed the planes very precisely for a while as though intelligently guided and just as suddenly disappeared. Certainly, the only possible explanation for these sightings is that these were true advanced technology, maybe alien, vehicles. Have you ever driven on a road through a forested area and noticed that the trees next to the road zip by while the trees further into the forest seem to move precisely along with your car? Children on such trips often ask Why are those trees following us?. There are 2 possible explanations for this phenomenon: Explanation 1: The distant trees have been demonically possessed and the demons have ripped the trees out of the ground and are making them run along the forrest floor;Explanation 2: This is an optical illusion simply due to the geometric sensation called parallax. These sightings occurred at night and during war when almost all the lights on the ground would have been black out, conditions where it is very hard to judge distances and any light sources that did exist, such as fires, search lights, or even lights on other aircraft could well appear to be following the planes.
Faith writes: The men in the video who experienceds these UFO phenomena, on the aircraft carrier and in the air, were all solid skeptics who hesitated to come to a conclusion about what they were seeing. In the end they only knew that they had witnessed something that appeared to be extremely real, some kind of unknown flying objects, physical but not behaving according to the laws of physics. They were intelligent skeptics. Yes! Exactly! Thank you, Faith! People experienced in optical and radar limitations and artifacts never insist that these phenomenon are beyond physical explanation. This is why they are now referring to them as UAO - unidentified aerial objects - to get away from all the nonsensical and sensationalistic explanations. They particularly do not refer to them as UDOs - unidentified demonic objects. Do you believe that crop circles are demonic (or even just physically unexplainable) creations? Please check the videos of how they are created by two guys with a two foot plank and a piece of rope and note how that phenomenon has faded from public attention now that the hoax has been explained. Note: Due to the highly sensitive nature of some of the matters discussed above you are ordered herewith to burn this post after reading.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1770 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yes I know, there is only one person I know of who interprets these as nonphysical phenomena and that is Jacques Vallee who rightly concluded that they simply do not obey physical laws, but seem to behave the way countless phenomena reported down the ages do who are identified as "beings." He didn't call them demons, I did, he calls them beings. I say they are demons because those are identified in the Bible as one kind of angel, the fallen kind. So I'm the one saying they are demons, but vallee is a bone fide UFOolgist and he called them "beings."
All you science aficionados really need to learn that the easiest thing to do is rationalize something away.
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ringo Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
The easiest thing to do is make up a "supernatural" explanation.
All you science aficionados really need to learn that the easiest thing to do is rationalize something away.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1770 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Vallee studied the UFO phenomena for years. You need to learn some respect.
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ringo Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
You don't need to study anything at all to come up with a "supernatural" explanation.
Vallee studied the UFO phenomena for years.
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