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Author | Topic: The Power/Reality Of Demons And Supernatural Evil. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I think the most likely explanation can be found in the first couple sentences.
quote: TRUE BELIEVERS!Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
TRUE HONEST BELIEVERS just do that; they believe.
Look at what you posted.
quote: "Praying together in agreement". What was needed was the participant that as not in agreement, the participant that can step up and say "Nonsense!!!". True Believers are not an oxymoron but rather just a dead end.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Phat writes: ringo writes: Fair enough. And you know that it is right because.... do point out where the scriptures get it right and where believers get it wrong. A) The Book says so.B) Logic, reason, and the reality of human morality say so. Sheesh. Phat, there are no moral or ethical observations or recommendations or commandments in the Bible stories that did not also appear even earlier in other religions and social systems. Study the writings of Mencius or Confucius or the sayings of the Buddha or Taoism or any of the thousands of religions that existed before Christianity.
Phat writes: IF B, then:1) Humans don't need God. We have an intuitive knowledge of right and wrong without Him. 2) Occasionally, the Bible points out wisdom that we already intuitively knew. Almost. The Bible points out wisdom that was also common to many social systems. There is nothing "intuitive" about it; it evolved through experience and mythos that was passed down generation by generation, society by society.
Phat writes: IF 2, then:a) We were born with knowledge of the right intuition. But the evidence show we are NOT born with any "right intuition" but rather it develops over time and experience.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The Buddha taught everything Jesus taught and hundreds of years before Jesus lived. The Hindu Vedas predate the Old Testament and many religious system predated the Garden of Eden.
The point is that there is nothing in the Bible that was not also developed independently in many other cultures.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: But Christianity is about our salvation from the consequences of that moral law, which is absolutely unique. Yup, the "get outta responsibility Christianity" is certainly easy to market, disgusting and pitiful.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What does the evidence show Phat?
Even if Jesus existed before the Buddha he taught nothing until he was in his late twenties to early thirties.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But there is no evidence of any Spirit Phat.
There is no evidence of any Demons. There is no evidence of anything Supernatural, Good or Evil. AbE: the fact remains there are no moral principals unique to Christianity. Edited by jar, : see AbE:
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: This is hardly Language In Thought & Action, here. It is a simple discussion. But it most certainly is Phat. You are using words but they don't seem to make any sense.
Phat writes: Evidence is irrelevant to my understanding. The above is a great example of where Language in Thought and Action is relevant to this discussion. How can you have any understanding without evidence? You can have beliefs or fantasies or thoughts or guesses or opinions or slogans or word salad without any evidence but how can anyone have understanding without testing and evidence?
Phat writes: For the record, I am clear on who I believe I am praying to. I prefer to call it "communicating with". Again. Communicating is a two way transaction. You cannot communicate with something unless that thing can and does respond.
Phat writes: So tell me this: When you, a self-proclaimed Christian pray, do you have any conception of who it is you are praying to? Or do you consider the question impossible to assess or conclude? When I pray I can use a placeholder, a symbol that I create and choose, but that is all that it is. There is absolutely no way for me to know who if anyone or anything is on the other end of the line. I can pray to God or Allah or Ganesha or Coyote or Raven or Shiva or Vishnu and it is all the same. If there is any answer it is the content that is relevant and important, not the source.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: I don't see how you ever could unless you hold evidence and science in higher regard than Faith & Belief. Of course evidence should trump faith and belief.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I remember the full construct Phat, not just the bumper sticker playground version.
Phat writes: And yet you have said that the supernatural..if it exists...is untestable. No, once again. I have said that no one has ever provided a model, mechanism, process, procedure or method to test the supernatural. And as long as there is no evidence of either Demons or Supernatural Evil no one has ever shown any reason anyone should worry about such fantasies. And yes, evidence should trump belief.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat, what does any of the stuff you brought over here have to do with the TOPIC?
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Did it ever occur to anyone that if a supernatural realm and subsequent "war" does exist, evidence would by necessity be rare? Something so rare as to be undetectable is really not worth wasting anyone's time or concern.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Even if Phat actually did see what is claimed, it is NOT evidence of demonic possession. It might be very weak evidence of red eyes and many voices seeming to speak but that is all.
Basics Faith, basics. Learn what evidence really is.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Remember the 60's? Suppose they gave a War and nobody came?
It seems that is exactly what happened with the supposed Spiritual War.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
No, not counter-intuitive, simply pointless and of no value beyond the fact it seems to make you feel good. And that's fine if it makes you happy. And yes, it seems that you simply won't use evidence or reason or logic or reality.
Phat writes: Maybe so, but a believer by definition believes either in a source (God, Jesus, Coyote, Raven, etc...) or in themselves (Content). Basics Phat, basics. That is a totally nonsense statement. Both of your examples are "source" and neither has anything to do with "content". Learn what words actually mean and you may avoid making such silly assertions. Learn the difference between "source" and "content".
Phat writes: The way that I define believers in this context is the belief in a God Who listens or is aware of your prayer in some regard. No one doubts that that is what you believe.
Phat writes: Seems that to you, all that is important in prayer is how YOU process it and respond to it. Exactly. The only thing that can ever be observed is behavior. The only thing that can ever accomplish anything is behavior. The only thing that can be tested is behavior.
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