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Author Topic:   Who Made God?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 830 of 868 (862999)
09-18-2019 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 829 by PaulK
09-18-2019 11:06 AM


Re: Eugenics and Darwin
Thanks for that from Darwin. Yes that is how we supposedly derive some moral principles from the ToE, but do note: he had to make up WHAT principle we should derive from it, as we always have to make it up, because the ToE really doesn't prescribe a moral standard. Sympathy? Well, OK? Altruism? Does it tell us not to steal, covet, lie, murder, commit adultery? Those principles also exist in Buddhism, based on the simple fact that nobody likes to be stolen from, lied to, cheated on etc. At least those principles have the virtue of being more or less in agreement with the Second Table of the Ten Commandments, but the ToE doesn't prescribe any morality with any kind of authority. You could just as well argue that evolution makes serial killers and greedy capitalists and tyranny. It seems to justify abortion just fine, and probably euthanasia.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 829 by PaulK, posted 09-18-2019 11:06 AM PaulK has replied

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 Message 831 by PaulK, posted 09-18-2019 11:29 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 834 of 868 (863005)
09-18-2019 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 831 by PaulK
09-18-2019 11:29 AM


Re: Eugenics and Darwin
Scientific theories don’t prescribe moral standards. And they shouldn’t.
And yet there we have Darwin talking about how we can derive a principle of helping the helpless from the ToE. And it's a pretty common thing one hears, it's not just Darwin. We got the argument of "altruism" as a moral principle from the ToE too. Whatever anyone wants to claim as a moral standard that can be attributed to evolution is going to be used as a moral standard derivable from the ToE. So it's really just empty words to claim science shouldn't be the basis for morality. REAL science, of course, but the ToE is NOT real science.

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 Message 831 by PaulK, posted 09-18-2019 11:29 AM PaulK has replied

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 Message 835 by PaulK, posted 09-18-2019 1:06 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 836 of 868 (863009)
09-18-2019 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 835 by PaulK
09-18-2019 1:06 PM


Re: Eugenics and Darwin
Well I wouldn't argue that we get or could get any kind of moral system from the ToE, but when people argue that we've evolved this or that trait that favors sympathy or kindness or whatnot I'd say it's the best we could ever get from Science and after Science has told us our religious morality is all made up people naturally try to find some kind of standard in that Science anyway, however irrational or whimsical.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 835 by PaulK, posted 09-18-2019 1:06 PM PaulK has replied

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 Message 837 by PaulK, posted 09-18-2019 1:19 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 838 of 868 (863011)
09-18-2019 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 837 by PaulK
09-18-2019 1:19 PM


Re: Eugenics and Darwin
A few tentative moral principles derived from a supposedly evolved trait that is far from universal and just a wild guess anyway is not a "moral system."
Religious morality is SO "dreadful" you say. Not lying, stealing, murdering, cheating on your spouse, coveting and so on is "dreadful?" Honoring one's parents is "dreadful?" Loving God and your neighbor is "dreadful?"
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 837 by PaulK, posted 09-18-2019 1:19 PM PaulK has replied

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 Message 840 by PaulK, posted 09-18-2019 1:44 PM Faith has not replied

  
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