GDR, Phat, jar,
Very interesting discussion. Thank you. Why such a devout atheist would find this discussion of such interest goes to one of my many personality flaws. I like people and I like to watch them tick.
I find that there is, philosophically, no difference in any of you. What I see is some misunderstanding of what jar is espousing.
If you find the words I put in your mouths distasteful please feel free to spit them back out.
I see jar saying he is a Christian. I see him saying that he believes, as a matter of faith, in the reality of god, Jesus, the resurrection, the whole Christian creed thing, just as do you others. Where I see the misunderstanding is where jar acknowledges that his beliefs may be erroneous. GDR and Phat are taking this as some form of disbelief on jar’s part. Further, jar states that whether god/Jesus/resurrection, which he does believe in, are actual realities of this universe or not, to him the message, the teachings, are more important.
In the Christian vernacular, I hear jar saying that he acknowledges and accepts The Gift while being quite straightforward in saying that whether this self-serving belief is real or not does not enhance nor diminish the teachings a Christian life is to follow.
While the philosophy is the same, in detail GDR and Phat seem to put more emphasis on The Gift as the defining belief of a Christian rather than on the teachings. And, no, I am not implying that the teachings are not important to them.
Jar is saying that since the reality of a Christian’s beliefs in god/Jesus/resurrection cannot be known until they have passed over the most important thing on this side for the Christian is to conduct one’s life in accord with the teachings; that though the beliefs are certainly important to being a Christian, thus he is a Christian, the only presently known demonstrable reality for the Christian is to follow the teachings.
Maybe this is what resonates with me from this discussion: whether Jesus the Jew said it, or Jesus the resurrected divinity said it, or Paul the Christian said it, or Gandhi the Hindu said it, or Arthur Clarke the humanist said it, the teachings of respectful compassionate love for others are paramount over any belief, or lack thereof, for the conduct of one’s life.
Thanks, again, fellas.