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Author | Topic: An excellent Apologetics Lecture | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18638 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
(Audio Only)
This man has intelligence and a persuasive argument regarding Christian belief. Another good one:
Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given. Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18638 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
I wish I could have produced the transcript! I'm unconvinced that apologists are liars--in general. They simply have a different world view.
Atheist Claims All Morality Is Subjective Its a long podcast, but the part that I liked was from 1:05 on in for roughly ten minutes. Basically the caller (who is not as skilled at the debate as some of you) and co-host Andrew Rappaport had a rousing argument. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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ringo Member (Idle past 664 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Produce the argument in your own words. I wish I could have produced the transcript!Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing. -- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves
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Phat Member Posts: 18638 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
Basically, they were arguing the old idea that A God Who commands the slaughter of other nations is violating His own New Testament Laws of Loving Thy Enemy.
The counter-argument asked the rhetorical question of whether the allies had the moral high ground in the D-Day counter-invasion carried all the way to Berlin. One side argues that God used a nation as His tool to punish the reprehensible behavior and actions of another nation. The other side will(and does) argue that the book was written by humans and that God is but a concept of the human mind and that essentially humans define and are responsible for their own morality. But the question still remains. Would YOU have advocated punishing Nazi Germany (and Imperial Japan) and Al-Queda? If not, why not?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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ringo Member (Idle past 664 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That seems like an argument that God's morality is relative. What has it got to do with atheists? One side argues that God used a nation as His tool to punish the reprehensible behavior and actions of another nation.Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of ‘not knowing. -- Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves
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PaulK Member Posts: 17912 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
quote: Their answer, then, is presumably no. There was nothing wrong with what Nazi Germany was doing. After all, if invaders exterminating the inhabitants of the land are good, what objection can there be to the Nazis doing the same? Edited by PaulK, : Sorted out autocorrect
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Tangle Member Posts: 9580 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
What are you saying? That it’s morally ok for God to be a murdering bastard but those he made in his likeness should be better behaved?
Children get their values from their parents.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Phat Member Posts: 18638 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
Children get their values from their parents. Metaphorically, Adam & Eve grew up the day they chose to acquire knowledge beyond the safety of "home". Metaphorically, Israel also was a rebellious nation in regards to loving God. In this day and age, people not only balk at the idea of loving God...judging His apparent character and behavior with their own wisdom, but they cease worrying about Him altogether. You would claim society "grew up" from its old mythology. I would say we became rebellious and proud in our own eyes. thus why I predict tough times and further lessons for modern people to undergo. And no, I don't gleefully anticipate it. If there is any smirk at all on my face, (inappropriately, of course) it is that you will be shocked upon learning that you dismissed God and that it was a wrong move. Of course, you allow for a polite nicely nice archetypical God to exist, as long as He doesnt stick His nose in human progress. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18638 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
It all boils down to who is good and who is bad and whether we can even agree on such a definition. One side would say that Gods people are the good guys---if they obey and listen to Dad. If they do what is right in their own eyes they are rebellious and bad. The argument even goes into the idea that Israel herself was punished--by pagan nations---for not listening to God.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Tangle Member Posts: 9580 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
You didn't answer the question, is it morally ok for god to murder?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Phat Member Posts: 18638 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
The potter can do what He wants with the clay. Where did the clay even get the idea that it was ok to argue? (a quickie answer...im on the way out the door to get to work )
Here is the answer from John Piper: (What do you think of his response?)
quote: Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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PaulK Member Posts: 17912 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7
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He’s effectively reduced goodness and justice to meaningless noises.
It’s funny how often those who proclaim a belief in absolute morality turn out to be nihilists.
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Phat Member Posts: 18638 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
So was it right what the allies did to Nazi Germany? Was it right what was done to Al-Queda?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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PaulK Member Posts: 17912 Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
quote: I’d say so. That’s why I’m not trying to justify genocidal invaders.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9580 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.7 |
Phat writes: Here is the answer from John Piper: (What do you think of his response?) He tells you that the God that you worship is sick and evil. So much for our morality originating in religion. Jesus would hate everything he stands for and so should you.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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