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EvC Forum ⇒ Social and Religious Issues ⇒ Faith and Belief ⇒

Jesus - Wholly Man - Wholly God

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Author Topic:   Jesus - Wholly Man - Wholly God
Tangle
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Posts: 9600
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.8

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(3)
Message 3 of 105 (861977)
08-30-2019 4:01 AM 		Reply to: Message 1 by GDR
08-29-2019 4:39 PM

Before you say anything, why do you think you have knowledge of what Jesus was or wasn't? Why should I listen to you?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
​
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
​
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by GDR, posted 08-29-2019 4:39 PM GDR has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Faith, posted 08-30-2019 6:50 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 6 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 11:08 AM Tangle has not replied
  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9600
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.8

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(1)
Message 11 of 105 (862001)
08-30-2019 1:10 PM 		Reply to: Message 4 by Faith
08-30-2019 6:50 AM

Re: It's the historical term for it
Faith writes:
​
GDR is simply giving the historical understanding of Jesus' nature, the understanding all Christians have who know anything about the history of these things.
​
GDR is no more a historian of 1st century Christianity than my dog is. And I don't have a dog. He's following a long tradition of talking authoritatively on things he has very little actual learning and mixing it up with personal belief.
​
Wholly God and Wholly Man is the official understanding of the nature of Jesus, the union of the nature of God who begot Him, with the human nature of His mother.
​
'Official' my arse'. Just people in power making stuff up.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
​
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
​
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Faith, posted 08-30-2019 6:50 AM Faith has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 3:36 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 28 by Faith, posted 08-30-2019 4:45 PM Tangle has not replied
  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9600
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.8

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Message 15 of 105 (862013)
08-30-2019 4:00 PM 		Reply to: Message 14 by GDR
08-30-2019 3:36 PM

Re: It's the historical term for it
GDR writes:
​
Fair enough. I haven't trained in either theology or first century history.
​
And, I'm guessing, you haven't trained in how to critically analyse historical information either?
​
I have though read books by people like NT Wright who is a 1st century historian.
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He's a bloody Anglican bishop!
​
I have read Josephus who was actually there, and I have shelves of books that I have read that provide numerous theological perspectives. I recently read a book called Patient Ferment on the early rise of Christianity.
​
You're a motivated reader; you have a self-confessed bias. Your reading is not to critically assess the information it's to confirm your existing beliefs.
​
However, again these are my current beliefs for you to critique any way you like.
​
My criticism is that you are merely researching to preach. You are not reading objectively.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
​
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
​
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 3:36 PM GDR has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 08-30-2019 4:03 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 22 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 4:16 PM Tangle has not replied
  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9600
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.8

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Message 30 of 105 (862035)
08-30-2019 4:58 PM 		Reply to: Message 17 by Phat
08-30-2019 4:03 PM

Re: It's the historical term for it
Phat writes:
​
And this disqualifies him how?
​
He's marking his own homework. He's a psychic researching dowsing.
​
Many Bishops are better read than you or I.
​
It doesn't matter how well read they are, it matters what they read, why they read and how they read.
​
You people cant simply cling to science and hope in humanity and expect your kids to have a safe and sane future.
​
'Us people' are doing our best to improve life here and now. You people' are praying for it all to end.
​
You need to get out more.
​
You're kidding...
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
​
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
​
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 08-30-2019 4:03 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9600
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.8

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Message 34 of 105 (862040)
08-30-2019 5:31 PM 		Reply to: Message 31 by GDR
08-30-2019 5:00 PM

Re: It's the historical term for it
GDR writes:
​
Interesting. The only poster that has actually critiqued what I wrote is Faith. The rest of you have been doing, what you usually do, and try to discredit the source.
​
Do we really need to point this out? Is this objective historicity or religiously motivated invention and blatant preaching?
​
So in Gethsemane, with this understanding of what was going to happen to Him, he prayed to the father that He wouldn’t have to go through with it. He sweated blood out of pure human fear. Yet, at the end of the day the man Jesus, through prayer and through His total knowledge of the Hebrew Scriptures, rode the donkey into Jerusalem, overturned the tables of those He denounced as having turned the Temple into a den of thieves, and then suffered through a sacrificial death as a result. He did this with the faith, built on prayer and His understanding of the Scriptures, that this was His vocation, and that God would vindicate His actions. It was the greatest act of faith in human history.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
​
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
​
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 5:00 PM GDR has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 6:05 PM Tangle has replied
  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9600
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.8

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(2)
Message 50 of 105 (862067)
08-31-2019 2:46 AM 		Reply to: Message 36 by GDR
08-30-2019 6:05 PM

Re: It's the historical term for it
GDR writes:
​
It is simply my "faith and belief" that I put out for discussion. Isn't that kinda what this forum is for? You do it all the time.
​
A moment ago you were calling it history.
​
This is why I asked you right at the beginning why you think you have a special understanding such that we should listen to you. You don't; you've just read some bits of Christian theology uncritically, composed your beliefs from it incorporating your own personal spin, then set about spreading the good word as you see it.
​
It's what believers have done down the ages.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
​
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
​
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by GDR, posted 08-30-2019 6:05 PM GDR has not replied
  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9600
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.8

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Message 53 of 105 (862076)
08-31-2019 12:19 PM 		Reply to: Message 52 by GDR
08-31-2019 10:57 AM

Re: It's the historical term for it
Do you ever read any non-Christian historians?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
​
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
​
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by GDR, posted 08-31-2019 10:57 AM GDR has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by GDR, posted 08-31-2019 12:34 PM Tangle has replied
  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9600
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.8

Normal Thread Display
Message 57 of 105 (862085)
08-31-2019 2:05 PM 		Reply to: Message 54 by GDR
08-31-2019 12:34 PM

Re: It's the historical term for it
You get credit for reading those things but - with the exception of Josephus - they're not historical works. I was asking whether you'd read any historians that weren't also theologians writing about 1st century Christianity.
​
I haven't btw, but if I was as interested as you are I would have done. If they exist that is.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
​
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
​
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by GDR, posted 08-31-2019 12:34 PM GDR has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Faith, posted 08-31-2019 4:52 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 61 by GDR, posted 08-31-2019 5:27 PM Tangle has not replied
  
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