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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Taq
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Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
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Message 1209 of 1385 (854354)
06-07-2019 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1196 by Dredge
06-07-2019 1:43 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Dredge writes:
Fine. Tell AZPaul3 - he was the one who “informed” me that synapsids evolved from amniotes (#1149).
Synapsids did evolve from amniotes, and synapsids are still amniotes. It's not that hard to understand. It's the same as chihuahuas evolving from dogs, and still being dogs.
Hmmm, what should I believe? A mountain of empirical evidence based on thousands of years of dog breeding, or your pseudo-scientific speculations based on wishful thinking?
You can look at the actual genetic divergence between dogs and wolves which isn't anywhere close to the 2% divergence between species like humans and chimps. This is empirical evidence.
You’re comparing the genetic differences between two genera (humans and chimps) to the genetic differences within one genera (dogs)?
So you are saying that dog breeding hasn't even produced enough genetic variation to produce two genera? If not, then dog breeding isn't capable of modeling long term evolution.
I already know that, because thousands of years of dog breeding has demonstrated that there are limits to how far the dog genome can be stretched - ie, thousands of years of empirical evidence that falsifies the Darwinian explanation for the fossil record.
You have only shown the limits of dog breeding over a very limited time period. Darwinian evolution took place over millions of years.

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
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Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


(2)
Message 1249 of 1385 (854967)
06-14-2019 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1247 by Dredge
06-14-2019 3:20 AM


Dredge writes:
(Someone (Stile, I think) implied that there might be such uses in "medicine" but I (my research team is on holidays at the moment) lost track of this part of the thread.)
Conservation and overall evolution of gene sequences between species is being leveraged to study human genetic diseases:
quote:
Data on replacement mutations in genes of disease patients exist in a variety of online resources. In addition, genome sequencing projects and individual gene sequencing efforts have led to the identification of disease gene homologs in diverse metazoan species. The availability of these two types of information provides unique opportunities to investigate factors that are important in the development of genetically based disease by contrasting long and short-term molecular evolutionary patterns. Therefore, we conducted an analysis of disease-associated human genetic variation for seven disease genes: the cystic fibrosis transmembrane conductance regulator, glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase, the neural cell adhesion molecule L1, phenylalanine hydroxylase, paired box 6, the X-linked retinoschisis gene and TSC2/tuberin. Our analyses indicate that disease mutations show definite patterns when examined from an evolutionary perspective. Human replacement mutations resulting in disease are overabundant at amino acid positions most conserved throughout the long-term history of metazoans. In contrast, human polymorphic replacement mutations and silent mutations are randomly distributed across sites with respect to the level of conservation of amino acid sites within genes. Furthermore, disease-causing amino acid changes are of types usually not observed among species. Using Grantham’s chemical difference matrix, we find that amino acid changes observed in disease patients are far more radical than the variation found among species and in non-diseased humans. Overall, our results demonstrate the usefulness of evolutionary analyses for understanding patterns of human disease mutations and underscore the biomedical significance of sequence data currently being generated from various model organism genome sequencing projects.
Understanding human disease mutations through the use of interspecific genetic variation | Human Molecular Genetics | Oxford Academic

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1247 by Dredge, posted 06-14-2019 3:20 AM Dredge has replied

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 Message 1251 by Dredge, posted 06-20-2019 7:04 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 1253 of 1385 (855925)
06-24-2019 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1251 by Dredge
06-20-2019 7:04 PM


Dredge writes:
That's all fine and dandy, but I fail to see how it demonstrates that accepting the Darwinian explanation is necessary to utilize knowledge of genetics in a practical sense.
Then why did you ask for practical uses for UCA?
Are you saying a YEC biologist couldn't understand the genetics of extant organisms?
Can you show me a YEC biologists who can predict which regions in a genome have function by using comparative genomics?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1251 by Dredge, posted 06-20-2019 7:04 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1255 by Dredge, posted 06-24-2019 10:39 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 1258 of 1385 (855981)
06-25-2019 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1255 by Dredge
06-24-2019 10:39 PM


Dredge writes:
In other words, you can't provide a practical use in applied science for the Darwinian explanation for the fossil record.
I already supplied that practical use.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1255 by Dredge, posted 06-24-2019 10:39 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1259 by Dredge, posted 06-26-2019 12:37 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 1265 of 1385 (856103)
06-26-2019 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1259 by Dredge
06-26-2019 12:37 AM


Dredge writes:
The practical use you supplied involves information relating to extant organisms . . .
It involves extinct fossil species as well since they supply the evidence for phylogeneis that have practical uses.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1259 by Dredge, posted 06-26-2019 12:37 AM Dredge has replied

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 Message 1268 by Dredge, posted 06-30-2019 12:46 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 1273 of 1385 (856506)
07-01-2019 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1268 by Dredge
06-30-2019 12:46 AM


Dredge writes:
I fear you are talking complete nonsense, probably due to suffering a serious delusion. Please provide a practical use in medical science or in any form of applied biology for the fossil record.
Already did. Here it is again:
quote:
Data on replacement mutations in genes of disease patients exist in a variety of online resources. In addition, genome sequencing projects and individual gene sequencing efforts have led to the identification of disease gene homologs in diverse metazoan species. The availability of these two types of information provides unique opportunities to investigate factors that are important in the development of genetically based disease by contrasting long and short-term molecular evolutionary patterns. Therefore, we conducted an analysis of disease-associated human genetic variation for seven disease genes: the cystic fibrosis transmembrane conductance regulator, glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase, the neural cell adhesion molecule L1, phenylalanine hydroxylase, paired box 6, the X-linked retinoschisis gene and TSC2/tuberin. Our analyses indicate that disease mutations show definite patterns when examined from an evolutionary perspective. Human replacement mutations resulting in disease are overabundant at amino acid positions most conserved throughout the long-term history of metazoans. In contrast, human polymorphic replacement mutations and silent mutations are randomly distributed across sites with respect to the level of conservation of amino acid sites within genes. Furthermore, disease-causing amino acid changes are of types usually not observed among species. Using Grantham’s chemical difference matrix, we find that amino acid changes observed in disease patients are far more radical than the variation found among species and in non-diseased humans. Overall, our results demonstrate the usefulness of evolutionary analyses for understanding patterns of human disease mutations and underscore the biomedical significance of sequence data currently being generated from various model organism genome sequencing projects.
Understanding human disease mutations through the use of interspecific genetic variation | Human Molecular Genetics | Oxford Academic
Fossils are used to construct the phylogenies used in the direct application described in the abstract.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1268 by Dredge, posted 06-30-2019 12:46 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1278 by Dredge, posted 07-04-2019 2:52 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 1275 of 1385 (856706)
07-02-2019 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1274 by Dredge
07-02-2019 12:33 AM


Dredge writes:
Do you realize that all you’ve done in your post is repeat yourself . almost word-for-word? Did you know that mindlessly repeating oneself may be symptomatic of a damaged cerebellum?
Do you realize that you can't address the examples of evolution being used in practical applications? Why is that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1274 by Dredge, posted 07-02-2019 12:33 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 1333 of 1385 (858791)
07-23-2019 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1278 by Dredge
07-04-2019 2:52 AM


Dredge writes:
Are you referring to this: Our analyses indicate that disease mutations show definite patterns when examined from an evolutionary perspective. Human replacement mutations resulting in disease are overabundant at amino acid positions most conserved throughout the long-term history of metazoans.?
If so, how do you get from amino acid positions to the fossil record?
The fossil record is used to construct phylogenies which are then used to detect mutations involved in disease.
This is a direct application of evolution in applied science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1278 by Dredge, posted 07-04-2019 2:52 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1336 by Dredge, posted 07-30-2019 1:53 AM Taq has replied
 Message 1340 by Dredge, posted 08-01-2019 9:53 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 1351 of 1385 (860329)
08-06-2019 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1336 by Dredge
07-30-2019 1:53 AM


Dredge writes:
An example, please.
Already given in previous posts.
quote:
Data on replacement mutations in genes of disease patients exist in a variety of online resources. In addition, genome sequencing projects and individual gene sequencing efforts have led to the identification of disease gene homologs in diverse metazoan species. The availability of these two types of information provides unique opportunities to investigate factors that are important in the development of genetically based disease by contrasting long and short-term molecular evolutionary patterns. Therefore, we conducted an analysis of disease-associated human genetic variation for seven disease genes: the cystic fibrosis transmembrane conductance regulator, glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase, the neural cell adhesion molecule L1, phenylalanine hydroxylase, paired box 6, the X-linked retinoschisis gene and TSC2/tuberin. Our analyses indicate that disease mutations show definite patterns when examined from an evolutionary perspective. Human replacement mutations resulting in disease are overabundant at amino acid positions most conserved throughout the long-term history of metazoans. In contrast, human polymorphic replacement mutations and silent mutations are randomly distributed across sites with respect to the level of conservation of amino acid sites within genes. Furthermore, disease-causing amino acid changes are of types usually not observed among species. Using Grantham’s chemical difference matrix, we find that amino acid changes observed in disease patients are far more radical than the variation found among species and in non-diseased humans. Overall, our results demonstrate the usefulness of evolutionary analyses for understanding patterns of human disease mutations and underscore the biomedical significance of sequence data currently being generated from various model organism genome sequencing projects.
Understanding human disease mutations through the use of interspecific genetic variation | Human Molecular Genetics | Oxford Academic
From the paper itself:
quote:
hus, as with our analysis of the frequencies of different amino acid changes, we only analyzed amino acid changes among species that could have been the result of a single nucleotide mutation and scored each type of amino acid change seen at a site once to account for the residue’s common ancestry within a phylogenetic lineage. In the cases of CFTR and TSC2, we further analyzed the observed polymorphic amino acid changes in humans. From the chemical distance scores, we used a non-parametric Kruskal—Wallace test to determine if significant overall differences existed among the sets of human and interspecific amino acid changes. Scores for CFTR and TSC2 were further subjected to Mann—Whitney U tests post hoc to determine where the significant differences lie among the disease associated, human polymorphic, and interspecific scores. This same procedure was used for comparisons of type I mutations, types II, III and IV mutations and interspecific mutation scores in G6PD. These analyses were conducted using SPSS 10.0 (SPSS Inc, 1999).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1336 by Dredge, posted 07-30-2019 1:53 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 1352 of 1385 (860330)
08-06-2019 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1340 by Dredge
08-01-2019 9:53 PM


Dredge writes:
I asked you for an example of this (#1336) but, unsurprisingly, none was provided. It looks suspiciously like your claim is a result of some sort of delusion.
I have given the same example multiple times, and yet you ignore it. I don't think the delusion is occurring on my end.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1340 by Dredge, posted 08-01-2019 9:53 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
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