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Author | Topic: Who Made God? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member (Idle past 118 days) Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined: |
ringo writes:
Not only do you not understand Christian judgement, but you are being a hypocrite: You tell me not to judge jar, but by doing so you are judging me! So your nonsense concept of Biblical judgement fails at the most fundamental level.
Maybe I don't understand judgement as it applies in your dogma. I'm just going by what the Bible actually says.
In that case, you need to consider the following verses:Do not judge by appearances, but JUDGE with right judgement. (John 7:24). Oh dear Jesus says we can JUDGE others. My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins. (James 5:19-20) When I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. Yet, if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul. (Ezk 3:18-19) But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be \[b\]accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed (Galatians 1:8-9). Uh oh - there’s some serious judgement going on here! Fake Christians who don’t preach the same doctrine as the apostles are JUDGED to be accused.
It's pretty much the same thing, though. If you decide that somebody is not a Christian, you are saying they're going to Hell.
Where did you get that silly idea? It certainly isn’t a Catholic point of view. I have no idea at all who is going to hell and I’m not in the least bit qualified to make that judgement (in fact, no human is). Furthermore, I believe that many non-Christians will be saved and go to heaven. Nevertheless, denying the divinity of the earthly Jesus (as jar does) is a serious heresy and those who subscribe to such a view are not considered to be part of the body of Christ (for example, Jehovah’s Witnesses are considered to be fake Christians). Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 118 days) Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined: |
jar writes:
Yeah right - that’s how it might read to a five year-old ignoramus who doesn’t understand that and became man in the Nicene Creed refers to the doctrine of the Incarnation and whose underdeveloped mind doesn’t understand that God cannot stop being God and become just a man. Yet that is what the Nicene Creed says. Btw, if Jesus was just a man when he was on the earth, how do you explain the following verse? We are not stoning you because of any good work but for blasphemy, but because you, a mere man, claim to be God. (John 10:33)
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Dredge Member (Idle past 118 days) Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined: |
jar writes:
Correct. So if Jesus claimed to be God when he was on earth, why do you claim he wasn’t?
Easy to explain. The author of John asserts that Jesus claimed to be God. Blasphemy was a capital offense.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 118 days) Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined:
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Theodoric writes: You are an offensive idiot. This comment is offensive and idiotic. An idiot is someone who cannot speak or read or write. I don't qualify as a idiot.I'm more likely a moron, a cretin or subnormal.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 118 days) Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined: |
jar writes:
Unfortunately for your nonsense theory, Jesus is accused of blasphemy in the other three gospels as well (eg, Matt 9:2-3, Mark 2:5-7, Luke 5:20-21). So all four gospels record that Jesus claimed to be God but you claim they’re wrong and that you know better! The author of John was marketing a revisionist Jesus tale which is quite different than what is found in the other Gospels What sort of so-called Christian blatantly ignores all four gospels and invents his own delusionary theology? A fake Christian, of course.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 118 days) Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined: |
jar writes:
Er, what does this have to do with what we were talking about??? You claimed that the gospel of John was different it that it reported that Jesus claimed to be God - which I then pointed out is incorrect, because the other three gospels report exactly the same thing. (Btw, I was taught about the difference between the gospel of John and the Synoptic Gospels when I was about thirteen.)
But once again you are simply denying reality. The Gospel of John has always been recognized as different than the other three Gospels which is why Mathew mark and luke are grouped as the Synoptic Gospels. Sorry but that is basic Christian history. Yet the fact also remains that that is what is actually written in the Nicene Creed.
No, it’s not a fact. But here is a fact - you don’t know what you’re talking about. You claim that - contrary to the evidence provided by all four gospels - the Nicene Creed says Jesus was just a man while on earth. But your claim is easily demonstrated to be nonsense by this fact: The Nicene Creed was formulated by the Catholic Church, which teaches the dogma of the Incarnation - ie, the earthly Jesus was both fully-God and fully-human.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 118 days) Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined: |
jar writes: Yet the fact remains what is actually written takes precedence over the dogma of your cult. The Nicean Creed says that Jesus became man. All the claims of your cult cannot change the fact of what was actually written. You're like a drunk fool bumbling and stumbling from one dud argument to the next. The Incarnation is very clearly expressed in the Scriptures, which should take precedence of your ignorant interpretation of the Nicene Creed - but it doesn't, because you deny the Scriptures. You also claim to know better than the Catholic Church (the original and largest Church) and the rest of Christianity, all of whom consider the Incarnation to be a core doctrine of their religion. The only Christians who might agree with your heretical interpretation of the Nicene Creed would be a few misfit fringe-dwellers who aren’t considered to be part of the body of Christ - imposters like Jehovah’s Witnesses and other assorted retards and hillbillies. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 118 days) Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined: |
post withdrawn
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 118 days) Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined: |
Faith writes: The Roman Church was understood by the Protestant Reformers to have begun when the Bishop of Rome was made Universal Bishop by the Byzantine Emperor Phocas, and called Pope, in 606 AD, the beginning of the papal system. The early Church was called Catholic at least as early as AD107: The first use of the term "Catholic Church" (literally meaning "universal church") was by the church father Saint Ignatius of Antioch (c. 50—140) in his Letter to the Smyrnaeans (circa 110 AD) The earliest recorded evidence of the use of the term "Catholic Church" is the Letter to the Smyrnaeans that Ignatius of Antioch wrote in about 107 to Christians in Smyrna. Exhorting Christians to remain closely united with their bishop, he wrote: "Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_(term) Edited by Dredge, : No reason given. Edited by Admin, : Fix formatting problems.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 118 days) Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined: |
jar writes:
So why do bother with what you call Christianity, if it’s all a fabrication of the human mind? I point out that all of the evidence shows that every God described has been the product of a human mind. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 118 days) Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined: |
jar writes: While all that is in the Bible is of course the product and creation of human minds, that does not make it all a fabrication. Well, in terms of the Bible, my idea of a fabrication is something that doesn’t come from God, but from humans. So if the entire Bible is a product of human minds, then the entire Bible is a fabrication. Nevertheless, I’m interested in which parts of the Bible you consider to be not a fabrication.
As I have said, I am a Christian because I was raised in a Christian home, became a member of a recognized Christian Church, was educated in a Christian School and find many of the teachings, the gospel of Jesus a reasonable and practical way to live.
So you’re Christian on the outside, but not on the inside. In other words, like I said, you’re a fake Christian. Do you believe in life after death? Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 118 days) Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined: |
jar writes:
Your interpretation of the Nicene Creed contradicts the NT, from which the Creed is derived. Hilarious. But you don't believe any of it, which makes your attempts at theology even funnier.
Yet the fact remains, that is exactly what is written in the Nicene Creed
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Dredge Member (Idle past 118 days) Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined: |
jar writes:
The fact that you’ve put so much effort into debunking the Bible and its supernatural contents strongly suggests you are motivated by some gigantic hang-up about Christianity. Maybe you were abused by some fag priest when you were ten. Who knows?
None of the Bible comes from God unless the God is intentionally supplying false and misleading information. There is no other explanation possible since there are numerous examples of stories that evolve as they are retold and also examples of direct mutually exclusive accounts of supposedly the same event. Over the years I've covered many such examples here. Two clear examples are from the New Testament; the evolution of the Great Commission and the encounter of Saul on the road to Damascus. Additional evidence that the Bible is a creation of humans is the fact that there is no such thing as "The Bible" but rather a whole set of canons ranging from the smallest that contains only the first five books and none of the New Testament to the largest that contains over 80 books.
News flash!! God’s official organisation on earth - the Catholic Church - defined exactly what the Bible contains about 1500 years ago.
But if there is a Heaven I am very sure Christians will be a very small minority there and that there will be far more atheist, agnostics, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews. Taoists as well as followers of Confucius and Mencius in attendance.
Your anti-Christian phobia is showing again.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 118 days) Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined:
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jar writes: Yet the fact remains I am not interpreting anything but rather simply pointing out what is actually written in EVERY version of the Nicene Creed since 325CE.It's also a fact the the Bible is filled with contradicts and mutually exclusive accounts of what is said to have happened. Contradiction? All four gospels provide accounts of Jesus being accused of blasphemy by the Jews. In each case, it is because Jesus claimed to be God.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 118 days) Posts: 2855 From: Australia Joined: |
jar writes:
That joke never grows old - makes me laugh every time I hear it!
the fact remains that I AM a Christian
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