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Author Topic:   Senator Al Franken?
Minnemooseus
Inactive Member


Message 240 of 300 (825792)
12-17-2017 11:51 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by Percy
12-15-2017 2:38 PM


Re: Why no ethics committee hearing for Franken
Minnemooseus writes:
What I suspect would come out of an ethics committee hearing, is that some of those "women should be believed" would be exposed as "women whose truth should be doubted".
Yeah, there's such an upside to coming forward with accusations of sexual harassment. I can't believe all women don't do it. Why can't everyone understand this and just ignore the obviously spurious charges against Franken and Trump and Moore and Weinstein and all the rest?
Consider the general personal profile of the above mentioned:
Weinstein - In a position of great power over the women accusers, in an industry long notorious for the "casting couch" concept.
Trump - He admitted to and indeed bragged about bad behavior (eg - the "Miss Teen America" (IIRQ) situation). Also, one in a position of power there. And abundant public evidence (eg - debates with Hillary) that he's fundamentally an asshole.
Moore - I believe there is something more than "she said" evidence in his case. And he does have a pretty solid image as being a neanderthal when it comes to progressive women's issues.
I also bring up Anthony Weiner. As I recall, he had at least some pretty strong progressive positions/actions as a U.S. congressman, but it seems that there was/is just something deeply psychologically wrong with him.
Franken - Yes, he did have some pretty reprehensible behavior in the Franken & Davis era, and even beyond. But I think that there is strong evidence that he is a "born again feminist", which isn't something you're going to accuse Weinstein, Trump, or Moore of being. I think he has been a powerful tool for progressive feminist issues, especially since he is a man.
My impression is that a common situation for misbehavior is when the man is in a position of power over one or more women. There is a public statement from the women of Franken's staff, that says that he has done no misbehavior towards them.
Concerning the "photos at the state fair situation". Franken was not in a position of power over those women. Indeed, as voters or potential voters, the women were in some small position of power over him. As I said before, it would be pretty stupid for a politician to deliberately do behavior that would alienate a voter.
As I've also previously said, the state fair is a very public place having lots of people having lots of cameras, where Franken would be getting lots of attention. I would think that there would be an abundant supply of photos and video out there, of Franken's behavior at the fair. Has any photo/video come out, documenting bad Franken behavior? Not that I know of, and I'm confident it would come out if it existed.
I know that last must seem contradictory given my calls for Franken's resignation right from the first, but that was when I truly believed that he knew what he had done. Now I'm not so sure. The human mind is a strange and complex thing, and though deep in my heart I believe the women, Franken does seem to genuinely believe they are mistaken.
Franken is a self-confessed "hugger". Maybe there was some excesses in his sincere physical affections towards others. And maybe some of those others fall into the category "easily offended".
Of course, since I believe the women I think he's lucky to have avoided the Ethics Committee, believing it would have come out very badly for him.
I can't see how he could come out looking worse that he currently does.
Still, I've stated that I liked Franken, and I still like Franken, and were I a Minnesota resident I would vote for him for Senator again, but only after he'd risen before microphones and stated, "I did it, I regret it, and I apologize, both for my actions and for my later denials."
Regardless, current Minnesota Lieutenant Governor Tina Smith has been appointed to fill the Franken vacancy, with her intending to run in the 2018 special election. I don't see any situation where Franken would enter a primary election agains Tina Smith.
Minnesota side note -
quote:
A new disagreement over the state constitution surfaced Wednesday at the Minnesota Capitol when Gov. Mark Dayton named Lt. Gov. Tina Smith to the U.S. Senate.
The Minnesota Constitution states that the last elected presiding officer of the senate shall become lieutenant governor. That presiding officer is state Sen. Michelle Fischbach, R-Paynesville. She says she’s ready to fulfill her constitutional obligation to assume the office but she doesn’t plan to give up her Senate seat.
A memo from the Senate’s top lawyer backing up her position cites an 1898 Minnesota Supreme Court ruling that decided the same question. In 1898, the lieutenant governor presided over the Senate. A 1971 constitutional amendment separated the two jobs.
A 1968 amendment prohibited senators or representatives from holding any other office but the Senate lawyer contends the core reasoning of the earlier court decision still applies. He did, however, warn Fischbach that her plan to hold two offices at once could be challenged in court.
Source
The Republicans hold a narrow margin in the Minnesota Senate.
Moose
Edited by Minnemooseus, : Posted message to soon, when it looking like browser problems were going to loose the message. Had a little to add.
Edited by Minnemooseus, : Call it fixing a typo.
Edited by Minnemooseus, : Add a ")".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Percy, posted 12-15-2017 2:38 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by dwise1, posted 12-18-2017 2:16 AM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied
 Message 243 by Percy, posted 12-18-2017 11:11 AM Minnemooseus has replied

  
Minnemooseus
Inactive Member


Message 255 of 300 (826177)
12-23-2017 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by Percy
12-18-2017 11:11 AM


Re: Why no ethics committee hearing for Franken
Franken is a self-confessed "hugger".
Glad you put "hugger" in quotes. How convenient for him, as if that makes it okay.
My intent was just to have "hugger" stand out, not to make it a euphemism for "groper". That said, I've come to realize that an undesired hug, regardless of how sincere and well meaning, could very well function as a grope.
And indeed, Franken may have been a compulsive hugger. But having a series of women come out saying "he hugged me" sure doesn't have the impact of saying "he groped me". Still, in all, one should be very careful with ones huggings.
I've come up with a title for Michael Moore's next documentary - "Huggergate - The Rise and Fall of Senator Al Franken".
I've looked some, and have failed to find any video of Franken "working the crowd", such as at the state fair. Such must exist. It would be interesting to see the nature of "the hugger" in action.
Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Percy, posted 12-18-2017 11:11 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 261 of 300 (826801)
01-10-2018 12:02 AM


A couple of ancient history links, plus something newer
Two from back in November:
Al Franken's Former Female Staffers Come to His Defense: 'He Treated Us With the Utmost Respect'
36 Women From Saturday Night Live Sign Letter of Support for Sen. Al Franken
And from Jan. 7, 2018:
Major Democratic donor threatens to pull funding from senators who called for Franken’s resignation
quote:
Sen. Al Franken has resigned from the Senate amid allegations of sexual harassment and calls from his colleagues for him to step down. Now, a major Democratic donor is saying those senators may have to pay a price for pressuring him to resign.
Susie Tompkins Buell, a liberal mega donor who primarily supports female politicians, said in interviews with Buzzfeed and the New York Times that she is reconsidering her financial support of politicians who called for Franken’s resignation, a move that she considered to be unfair, cavalier and a stampede.
For me this is dangerous and wrong, Buell told the New York Times, saying that the senators moved too fast in condemning Franken.
More at source.
Moose

Replies to this message:
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Minnemooseus
Inactive Member


Message 269 of 300 (827517)
01-26-2018 9:18 PM


Garrison Keillor - More details from Minnesota Public Radio
Links for the record here:
Garrison Keillor exposed
Which links to the lengthy:
Investigation: For some who lived in it, Keillor's world wasn't funny | MPR News
Moose

  
Minnemooseus
Inactive Member


Message 270 of 300 (830519)
04-01-2018 7:04 PM


Rep. Elizabeth Esty pressured to resign following reports...
Rep. Elizabeth Esty pressured to resign following reports of sexual harassment in her office
quote:
Rep. Elizabeth Esty (D-Conn.) is facing growing calls to resign over the role she played in a sexual harassment scandal involving her former chief of staff Tony Baker and former staffer Anna Kain. According to reports first published by the Washington Post and Connecticut Post, Esty reportedly kept Baker on her staff for three months after learning about a May 2016 episode in which Baker left a threatening voicemail for Kain that inspired her to obtain a restraining order.
More at source.
Moose

  
Minnemooseus
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 271 of 300 (843372)
11-17-2018 1:07 AM


Related material from another topic - Michael Avenatti
2 messages from Percy:
Message 2608 - I'm Done with Michael Avenatti:
Percy writes:
Today's New York Times reports that Michael Avenatti has been arrested on suspicion of domestic violence.
I hope that lawyer gig continues to work out for him, because his political future is dead.
I'm nonetheless saddened. The Democrats need someone who can dish it out as well as Trump can, and Avenatti has the additional advantage that the things he says are true. Avenatti would have been an unlikely 2020 candidate, but it would still have been nice to have his forceful voice articulating Democrat viewpoints.
And the followup Message 2610 - Re: I'm Done with Michael Avenatti
Percy writes:
More on the Michael Avenatti arrest on suspicion of domestic violence in today's Washington Post: Michael Avenatti arrested on suspicion of domestic violence, calls allegations ‘completely bogus’
I, like probably everyone else, assumed the complainant was Avenatti's wife. They are separated and getting a divorce. But Avenatti's wife denies she filed any complaint, and says that Avenatti never exhibited a violent side during their relationship. Avenatti says he wasn't with his wife on the night in question.
And Avenatti's first wife posted on social media that Avenatti was a "loving father" who has "never been abusive."
And though Avenatti was arrested on "suspicion of domestic violence" (whatever that is), no charges were filed.
I originally assumed that Avenatti was arrested because a woman had reported him to the police for abusing her, but no victim filed a complaint. So who filed the complaint? Who was the abused woman? Where is the name, where are the pictures of black eyes and bruises. Nobody's talking, nobody has any hard information, so who knows. That Avenatti was arrested for "suspicion of domestic violence" instead of just "domestic violence" and that no victim has been named or evidence of any sort described raises suspicions. Is it possible that someone reported Avenatti to the LAPD for abusing a woman, and for some reason the LAPD acted on it? That seems strange, but recall that police departments have called out entire swat teams based on fake 911 calls.
Avenatti has already suffered from this arrest. Stormy Daniels says she will drop him as her lawyer if there's any truth to the abuse complaint, and the Vermont Democratic Party has cancelled his upcoming scheduled appearances.
I've shifted from condemning Avenatti to waiting for more news.
Smells of of "Metoo Swift Boating", aka an "Al Frankening". Not unlike the Keith Ellison situation (he still did get elected as Minnesota Attorney General, and he had my vote).
More to follow (someday).
Moose

  
Minnemooseus
Inactive Member


Message 276 of 300 (843522)
11-18-2018 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by Percy
11-18-2018 4:08 PM


Re: A Little More Avenatti News (Very Little)
Trump has special gifts of communication that can only be countered by someone with the same special gifts. Avenatti has these special gifts, and those who understand the threat Trump poses to our country's future should welcome his voice on their side, but only if he can clean up immaculately, completely and unambiguously the recent messes he has created.
"... he has created"??? Might these be completely bogus charges created by someone else?
Again -
Trump has special gifts of communication that can only be countered by someone with the same special gifts.
Al Franken, the author of "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them"?
Al was run out of Congress based on some pretty flimsy allegations. The big damage was the Leanne Tweeden photo, of which Al was guilty of posing for a staged (I think probably with Tweeden's active participation) photograph of a bad joke - "Al Franken groping the ungropable". This was followed up by a number of women saying "Oh my God, he touched my butt while we were having a photo taken at the Minnesota state fair".
In the name of a political assassination, might well there not indeed be a number of women willing to lie or at least distort the truth to eliminate a good and powerful democrat Senate voice?
And with all the people with all the cameras at the state fair, wouldn't you think that someone might of captured a photo or video of Al doing something bad?
Moose

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by Percy, posted 11-18-2018 4:08 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by Percy, posted 11-19-2018 11:07 AM Minnemooseus has replied

  
Minnemooseus
Inactive Member


Message 281 of 300 (843648)
11-19-2018 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Percy
11-19-2018 11:07 AM


Believe the women, but might there not also be a few liers out there?
I believe the women. #MeToo
And that is what puts Franken in such a difficult position - He too is a supporter of "believe the women".
BUT - You don't think there is a real possibility that a number of women who might somehow be induced to lie or at least distort the truth?
More via a reply to another older message coming.
Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Percy, posted 11-19-2018 11:07 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by Percy, posted 11-21-2018 3:50 PM Minnemooseus has replied

  
Minnemooseus
Inactive Member


Message 283 of 300 (844496)
11-30-2018 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by Percy
11-21-2018 3:50 PM


Another Franken comeback link

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Percy, posted 11-21-2018 3:50 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Inactive Member


Message 284 of 300 (853563)
05-28-2019 11:33 PM


Al Franken has a Podcast
For future reference - I haven't yet listened to it.
Al Franken has a Podcast | Greg Laden's Blog
Moose

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by Percy, posted 05-29-2019 12:56 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Inactive Member


Message 286 of 300 (858700)
07-22-2019 11:35 PM


Franken ‘Absolutely’ Regrets Resigning From The Senate
Franken ‘Absolutely’ Regrets Resigning From The Senate
quote:
Former Sen. Al Franken (D-MN) says he absolutely regrets resigning from the Senate, adding that he wishes he had appeared before the Senate Ethics Committee to let more details of the sexual harrasment accusations come to light.
A stunning number of current senators told the New Yorker, on the record, that they regret the haste with which they’d joined in calls for Franken’s resignation. They include Sens. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), Tammy Duckworth (D-IL), Angus King (I-ME), Jeff Merkley (D-OR) and Tom Udall (D-NM).
Read Jane Mayer’s deep dive on the photo that ended Franken’s career and the reaction it elicited here.
Again:
quote:
Former Sen. Al Franken (D-MN) says he absolutely regrets resigning from the Senate, adding that he wishes he had appeared before the Senate Ethics Committee to let more details of the sexual harrasment accusations come to light.
"Harrasment" is their spelling. My spell check says the below is correct.
I've thought that the one question I would have liked to ask Al is "Why didn't you submit yourself to the Senate Ethics Committee to let more details of the sexual harassment accusations come to light?
More from the New Yorker link:
quote:
Franken’s fall was stunningly swift: he resigned only three weeks after Leeann Tweeden, a conservative talk-radio host, accused him of having forced an unwanted kiss on her during a 2006 U.S.O. tour. Seven more women followed with accusations against Franken; all of them centered on inappropriate touches or kisses. Half the accusers’ names have still not become public. Although both Franken and Tweeden called for an independent investigation into her charges, none took place. This reticence reflects the cultural moment: in an era when women’s accusations of sexual discrimination and harassment are finally being taken seriously, after years of belittlement and dismissal, some see it as offensive to subject accusers to scrutiny. Believe Women has become a credo of the #MeToo movement.
At his house, Franken said he understood that, in such an atmosphere, the public might not be eager to hear his grievances. Holding his head in his hands, he said, I don’t think people who have been sexually assaulted, and those kinds of things, want to hear from people who have been #MeToo’d that they’re victims. Yet, he added, being on the losing side of the #MeToo movement, which he fervently supports, has led him to spend time thinking about such matters as due process, proportionality of punishment, and the consequences of Internet-fuelled outrage.
Moose

  
Minnemooseus
Inactive Member


Message 289 of 300 (858808)
07-24-2019 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 288 by Percy
07-23-2019 8:17 AM


Re: The Case of Al Franken
The gist is that the Tweeden charges have some serious holes, and that unbeknownst to us at the time Tweeden is an arch conservative who works for the most conservative TV outlet in Los Angeles.
Right from the beginning it was known that Tweeden was/is a Trump supporter with ties to Fox news. And it was the bogus (bad joke at worst) Tweeden photo that set off the frenzy. Short of a Tweeden confession, we'll never know if she was an active participant in the posing of that photo, but such is my suspicion.
But the stories of the seven other women who came forward largely hold up, though not all made themselves available to the reporter.
As I remember it, the bulk of these were "butt touching" incidents during photograph takings at the Minnesota state fair. I, for more reasons that one, wished these had been investigated/discussed more - On the lighter side I see the phrase "Buttgate" as the title of the scandal. But, as I've said before, Franken probably posed for hundreds of these photos. In the situations of large crowds of people, lots of cameras, and Franken being a center of attention, might someone have photo-captured one of these "butt touches"
The only Franken with a woman photo I've seen (available upthread somewhere), for better or worse, showed no sign of where Franken's hands were. The (fairly low resolution) photo I saw did show signs of the photoshop removal of Franken's hand from the woman's shoulder. Or maybe it was a photoshop to remove a hand that was never there in the first place, just to confuse things more. Anyway, that woman was also on record as being a Trump supporter. How many Trump supporter women might there be, willing to take part in a smear of a substantial opponent of the Trump agenda?
Yes, Franken has admitted to being a hugger (and I now don't phrase that as what you once interpreted as a (wink wink) "hugger"). So indeed, Franken may well have been guilty of being a little too physically affectionate. But doing such in a place with lots of people and lots of cameras? That seems to be a pretty poor way to hide your evilness. I guess any future Franken with a woman photos need to have Al waving his hands up in the air.
The bottom line seems to be that Franken should have had a chance to face a hearing before the Ethics Committee so that the charges could have been properly investigated.
I don't know if his once stating that he wanted an Ethics Committee hearing went so far as he or anyone else formally requesting such. It seemed that no one wanted to let good procedure stand in the way of running a pervert out of the Senate.
I hope he somehow finds his way back into the Senate.
I checked it out a while back, and he would have been (and Tina Smith is) up for reelection in the fall of 2020. Pending what new information comes out in the meantime, I'd go with Franken in a Franken/Smith primary confrontation. It's not looking promising that the Amy Klobuchar Senate seat is going to be coming open in 2020/2021.
Maybe the whole mess was to eliminate the possibility of a Franken vs Trump Presidential battle in 2020??? I've said it before and I'll say it again, who has better credentials with confronting "big fat idiots"? What would happen if Trump would have mouthed off like he did to Hillary, but it had been Franken as his opponent? Isn't there some saying about the dangers of heckling a professional comedian? Not that Franken was much if at all a comedian as a Senator.
Moose

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien
"Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable." - John Kenneth Galbraith
It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn’t know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman (as stolen from Chiroptera's signature)
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Percy, posted 07-23-2019 8:17 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Inactive Member


Message 290 of 300 (861783)
08-26-2019 9:49 PM


Franken Anounces Run for Senate
Franken Anounces Run for Senate | Greg Laden's Blog
quote:
quote:
Today, a Climate Hawk is announcing his candidacy in the crowded Iowa Democratic Party primary for the chance to send Koch-funded, Koch-created, Koch-parroting climate-science denier Jodi Ernst to the pasture.
As his announcement video makes clear, Iowa farm boy Vice Admiral Mike Franken, U.S. Navy (retired), places climate change as core to his priorities, as core to his campaign, as core to his understanding of Iowans’ concerns about today and tomorrow.

A quote of a quote.
Gave me quite a rush when I saw the headline.
Not that I really have anything against Senator Tina Smith, but I think the other Franken should primary her this coming election.
Moose

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien
"Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable." - John Kenneth Galbraith
It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. -- Paul Krugman (as stolen from Chiroptera's signature)
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

  
Minnemooseus
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 291 of 300 (861966)
08-29-2019 10:53 PM


Gillibrand Campaign Insiders Felt Franken Resignation Foiled Her Bid
How Franken Resignation Affected Gillibrand - TPM – Talking Points Memo
quote:
According to a Politico report Thursday, people from inside the Gillibrand campaign acknowledged that being the first Democratic senator to call for the resignation of former Sen. Al Franken (D-MN) last year over sexual misconduct allegations most likely played into the challenges she faced during her campaign, especially when it came to fundraising. Franken has said he absolutely regrets resigning.
A couple of links in that paragraph at the source.
quote:
Franken was definitely a problem in terms of fundraising, a person familiar with the Gillibrand campaign told Politico. He just kept coming up, over and over again.
Jen Palmieri, Hillary Clinton’s former communications director, shared a similar sentiment on there being no question that the Franken resignation had a huge, outsized impact on Gillibrand’s campaign.
The sub-current of her entire candidacy was the Franken resignation, and people unfairly pinning that on her, Palmieri told Politico. It’s a crowded field, and it’s hard for all the candidates, but that really hampered her.
Franken screwed up her political career by resigning???
Moose

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by nwr, posted 02-11-2020 7:22 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 292 of 300 (871738)
02-10-2020 11:48 PM


What if Al was in the picture
Percy writes:
I watched the Friday Democratic debate and the Sunday morning analysis programs and had these impressions:
  • Bernie Sanders: For going toe-to-toe verbally with Trump on a debate stage, it's Bernie. His ability to deflect criticism and then return to his message is very strong. He had a very strong debate performance. But he embraces the socialist label. He insists on calling it "democratic socialism," but if you look it up it's not much different from plain old socialism. I consider him unelectable. He'll win the primary easily because he's so well known here because he was once governor of the adjacent state of Vermont.
  • Amy Klobuchar: She's a strong second for going toe-to-toe with Trump. She also had a very strong debate performance. But she wasn't invited on any Sunday morning programs that I saw - I haven't watched Jake Tapper's or Chris Wallace's shows yet. I looked at her stands on the issues at her website and she has all the right positions on healthcare, gun control, immigration, taxes, trade, foreign relations, student debt, climate change and abortion rights.
Source from elsewhere of the above
Was the (more or less) smear of Franken important to the Republicans, to get him out of the picture?
Not only was he a powerful voice of reason in the Senate, but might not he also have been in the Presidential picture?
I deem Franken to be a documented expert with dealing with liars and big fat idiots. Going toe-to-toe verbally with Trump? It might just be my dream confrontation.
Moose
Edited by Minnemooseus, : Didn't close the list code.

Replies to this message:
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